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Thread: Rg34 help needed

  1. #1
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    Default early Gustav Appel? Rg34

    Hi i have found this Rg34. After reading page http://rg34.blogspot.com/ I think this kit is very early Gustav Appel but i can be wrong.
    At least i didnīt spend too much for it, i think....

    Question, did i found real pre war kit or not?

    Regards
    K
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by M / 62; 02-08-2019 at 03:56 PM. Reason: new info.

  2. #2
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    Everything points to that these unmarked commercial kits were made or assembled for to export (Portugal and maybe others), very probably by the Gustav Appel firm in the thirties, although contrary their regular manufacture, these kits have crudest made parts inside.

    Antoni
    http://rg34.blogspot.com.es/

  3. #3
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    Hi Antoni,
    Thank you for your reply, this kit was found in Finland, but this does not mean anything.
    For 50€ i think i didn't pay too much....
    Last edited by M / 62; 02-09-2019 at 06:33 AM.

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    Based on what I have seen when the (Portuguese) contract RG34s began to turn up, I have come to some conclusions:

    The kits were made by G APPEL, MUNDLOS, & HAWIG. It may be possible GA got the contract, but sub-contracted work to the other two firms. I base this on components found in these kits. Often they have been refurbished and markings scrubbed in the process (the steel oiler in particular). I also suspect the majority of the chains have also undergone refurbishment by replacement of the patch link swivel with one of brass. Lastly, many of the HKWs also have been replaced with the type pictured (always unattributed). One also must be cautious of any markings on the tin (unless it is that of a legitimate manufacturer). I have seen one or two with a small E/135 stamped on the lid and even a Mauser "banner".

    An aside to this is in the 1980s Paragon Inc. (which I believe evolved into IMA, Inc.) offered RG34s for either $20. or $25. each. These were quite nice, original German issue kits and sometimes even had all correctly marked & dated components, with the exception of the chains. The chains were about three+ inches longer than the original German issue, completely newly made, and had a brass swivel link as well. My surmise is whatever nation retained these kits for their own armed forces decided to scrap all the original, mixed-pattern chains and replace them with one standard type. I have not seen any of these kits in a long time. My guess is over time, many ended up in collector hands and the replacement chains were exchanged when a correct German issue one came along.
    Last edited by pwcosol; 02-11-2019 at 10:34 AM.

  5. #5
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    Hi,
    Thank you for your reply,
    As said this Rg is maybe come in Finland in -80īs or -90īs by some collector. This kit chain is aprox 108,5cm long and has 65 links.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwcosol View Post
    Based on what I have seen when the (Portuguese) contract RG34s began to turn up, I have come to some conclusions:

    The kits were made by G APPEL, MUNDLOS, & HAWIG. It may be possible GA got the contract, but sub-contracted work to the other two firms. I base this on components found in these kits. Often they have been refurbished and markings scrubbed in the process (the steel oiler in particular). I also suspect the majority of the chains have also undergone refurbishment by replacement of the patch link swivel with one of brass. Lastly, many of the HKWs also have been replaced with the type pictured (always unattributed). One also must be cautious of any markings on the tin (unless it is that of a legitimate manufacturer). I have seen one of two with a small E/135 stamped on the lid and even a Mauser "banner".

    An aside to this is in the 1980s Paragon Inc. (which I believe evolved into IMA, Inc.) offered RG34s for either $20. or $25. each. These were quite nice, original German issue kits and sometimes even had all correctly marked & dated components, with the exception of the chains. The chains were about three+ inches longer than the original German issue, completely newly made, and had a brass swivel link as well. My surmise is whatever nation retained these kits for their own armed forces decided to scrap all the original, mixed-pattern chains and replace them with one standard type. I have not seen any of these kits in a long time. My guess is over time, many ended up in collector hands and the replacement chains were exchanged when a correct German issue one came along.
    pwcosol, very interesting thoughts.

    These "export" kits, apart from the tin case, have unique type pieces with very rough manufacturing and finishing. With respect to the unmarked tin cans, these show a standard manufacturing, although they have some point of particularity as the form of the brass latches. The fact that Gustav Appel had the patent rights on the tin case (and also the oiler) suggests logically that they were manufactured or their production was supervised by this firm, although the low quality in the manufacture of the pieces clashes with the high quality, which show the commercial manufactured kits by them.

    The takedown tool has a particular form, also the black brushes, with the peculiar tin solder at the end of the wires, and the milled oiler seems to be assembled with very rough parts, like they were from rejected parts. With regard to the cleaning chain, many are longer, with evident diferences of manufacture from the standard chain, and many with a very coarse made patch loop piece, that sure it would not have passed the strict quality controls for the Wehrmacht, this makes it hard for me to believe, that it was manufactured by Gustav Appel or any of the others known Rg34 manufacturer firms.

    The fact that these pieces could have been manufactured exclusively by some subcontractor for the export contract, or even by Portugal itself, is feasible.

    Antoni
    http://rg34.blogspot.com.es/

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dot View Post
    pwcosol, very interesting thoughts.
    These "export" kits, apart from the tin case, have unique type pieces with very rough manufacturing and finishing. With respect to the unmarked tin cans, these show a standard manufacturing, although they have some point of particularity as the form of the brass latches. The fact that Gustav Appel had the patent rights on the tin case (and also the oiler) suggests logically that they were manufactured or their production was supervised by this firm, although the low quality in the manufacture of the pieces clashes with the high quality, which show the commercial manufactured kits by them.

    The takedown tool has a particular form, also the black brushes, with the peculiar tin solder at the end of the wires, and the milled oiler seems to be assembled with very rough parts, like they were from rejected parts. With regard to the cleaning chain, many are longer, with evident diferences of manufacture from the standard chain, and many with a very coarse made patch loop piece, that sure it would not have passed the strict quality controls for the Wehrmacht, this makes it hard for me to believe, that it was manufactured by Gustav Appel or any of the others known Rg34 manufacturer firms. The fact that these pieces could have been manufactured exclusively by some subcontractor for the export contract, or even by Portugal itself, is feasible. Antoni
    Some of the "ugly" components could have been made new in Portugal or result of heavy refurbishment. I do remember when the kits first began to turn up, components sometimes had manufacturer markings on them but usually not dated. None were WaA either. Most common was APPEL. Kits imported much later seemed to have a majority of either refurbished, modified, or ? manufactured replacement parts. Though Portugal seems to be the source most referred to, we know lots of German equipment went to Spain, and wonder if they might also have received a number of kits as well...

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    Spain, unlike Portugal, did not acquire K98k rifles after their civil war. At the forties Germany sent to Spain diverse material like planes, tanks, artillery and others as motorcycles with sidecar, many armed with Mg34s. Maybe these came with Rg34 kits.

    As a curiosity, in Spain was manufactured (at weapons depot level) an ugly copy of the Rg34 kit, although their pieces show clear differences with the original.

    Antoni
    http://rg34.blogspot.com.es/

  9. #9
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    Hi Antoni and pwcosol,
    Thank you for your time to answer this topic. I have learn a lot.

    Regards
    K

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