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Kreighoff M41 8mm Conversion

RyanE

Baby Face
Staff member
Krieghoff M41 8mm Conversion

I don't know as much about these single shot M41 conversions as I should, but its the same letter block as another of my 6.5 M41s, so I took a bit of a chance on this one. The lack of an H prefix and no recoil bolt gave me some serious pause, but I am 95% certain this is real.

The rifle is an early 1943 Terni M41 from the AO block built using a leftover or rejected 1942 barrel. Stock is absolutely untouched, original to the action, and depot marked (by Naumburg) as is typical. You can see my 6.5mm AO block rifle here: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?27998-Interesting-M91-41-Carcano

The original barrel SN has been X'd out and both barrel and receiver have received a new SN of 3956. The modified bolt has been blued and etched with the new HK serial number on the body and the cocking piece. A new, taller front sight has been installed making full disassembly impossible, but luckily the rifle has been duffle cut so I could get it apart. Unfortunately there are no interesting marks under the woodline. Wood block is installed in the magazine well. I tossed in an FNM 8mm cartridge and it feeds and ejects just fine. Bore is absolutely mint.

Any comments by those more familiar with these is appreciated. Maybe an early one?
 

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Has a weird cleaning rod in it also. Fits, but it isn't an M41 rod. Thicker and a half inch or so shorther (threads are shorter too). Anybody know what it is? Did HK make new cleaning rods for these? Sounds insane but the Germans did crazier things.

The bottom rod in the photos is a Terni marked M41 rod.
 

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Yours is good, in my opinion. I have 4527 (no H), AM7545 (x'ed out), FAT 42, German serial on left buttstock, no recoil bolt, etc. but mine has the rear sight elevator removed. That cleaning rod is unusual, mine is missing, haven't heard of any others like it.

David
 
Cool rifle Ryan! Glad to see you snagged that one. I don’t have any info to add on them, hopefully someone else does, I’d like to hear more about them.
 
Yours is good, in my opinion. I have 4527 (no H), AM7545 (x'ed out), FAT 42, German serial on left buttstock, no recoil bolt, etc. but mine has the rear sight elevator removed. That cleaning rod is unusual, mine is missing, haven't heard of any others like it.

David

Thanks David. Is your bolt blued?

Removed the magazine housing from the stock and found that it is etched also.
 

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What a cool rifle !
I'm surprised that with all the effort to convert to 7,92mm, that the magazine was not also altered ala the GEW88 rifles that were updated with a modified magazine well assembly for use with stripper clips. (Perhaps the magazine well length is not long enough ?)
 
The Germans did make some repeater rifles, but couldn't get them to work reliably.

David

I have a translation of documents from the German Federal Archive in Freiburg RH12-? (complete number can't be read) "Bundesarchive-Militarchiv, Freiburg Germany, Referance # RH-12?". Suppled and translated by Wolfgang Riepe of Germany. .

The chief of the German armament and the supreme commander of the recruit-army (levy) makes up secret notice numbered 1813/43 at January 8. 1945.
"Der Chef der Heeresrüstung und Oberbefehlshaber des Ersatzheeres verfaßt am 8.Januar. 1945 unter Nummer 1813/43 eine geheime Aktennotiz."
.
These files contain discussions by the Chief of engineering at the Waffenamt WaA, Infantry-school in Döberitz, and Supreme Commander or the Recruit-army (levy) about converting Carcanos, testing them, their faults etc. The first document is dated Jan. 8, 45
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From this document (short description, there are 12 pages) it appears the Germans started experimenting with converting Carcanos (Karab. 408( i ), Moschetto Mod. 38 & Gewehr 210 ( i ), Fucile Mod.41 to 7.92 in Jan 1945. (it states three plants were to produce an output of 5000 rifle conversions daily. Cautious estimate will expect only 500 a day) they were still testing them in March 1945. They tried to convert the Carcanos to "repeaters" but gave up and made them single shot in March 1945. They tried everything to make them "repeaters" altered Italian clips, their own "stronger clip", even a 4 round "fixed built in magazine". They couldn't get them to function reliably, and didn't like the drop out clip. (the Germans were worried they couldn't produce enough clips to supply all the rifles and clips would have to be re-used)
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They state the following about the clips: Durability of the clips is not sufficient. After long use the sides of the frame of the cartridges will bend conically. So the empty frame does not fit in the Magazine and will fall out down the hole. After making a clip of stronger material (could this be the Mystery clip shown above?) the empty clip will fit the magazine better when recharged The empty clip will hang up at the downward mouth of the magazine and can be fetched and saved by the shooter. The shooter gets the opportunity to use the clip for a longer time.
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They were originally going to issue the 8mm rifles to the German Army but they weren't accurate enough or reliable. They were then going to issue them to the Volkssturm and factory guards but decided against this too and to only use Italian rifles in the original 6.5 caliber for the Volkssturm and factory guards.. They decided to issue the 8mm rifles only for auxiliary duties.
 
Late to the show, but neat rifle, Ryan.
It looks good to me too, but I see why you'd maybe second guess it. It does have some features/aspects that might not be 100% consistent with some/most others, but having other known examples out there with similar attributes like David's gives them more credibility as far as I'm concerned. Mine have similarities to each other, but differences, too.

You piqued my interest in the etched serial under the wood line on the magazine assembly, so I had to look on mine. Neither of them have it, and that's the first I've seen of any additional numbers placed on other components outside of a M.38 Car Carbine I own (non Krieghoff conversion).

Pat
 

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