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Value question, 1917 Spandau with dust cover

runner

Senior Member
Got a quick look at a pretty average mismatch 1917 Spandau Gew 98. What interests me is the dust/trench cover on it. The cover is complete and in good shape. The owner does not want to separate cover from rifle, and wants me to make an offer, and I want to be fair. I am no Imperial expert, but I would value the rifle at $400. So what should I offer for the complete rig.

I know without details pictures I could be buying a repro item. I saw this rifle some time ago when it was not for sale, the owner does not have picture capability and it is three states away so my decision will be made without additional info. My relationship with the seller is such that I am willing to eat the loss if it is bad.

Thanks, runner
 
If the dust cover is original and nice $700 or so. You see like a thousand rifles for ever original cover and I’m probably too lenient in that assement. Is the rifle a “straight” 1917 Spandau or is it a some sort of non- standard production? A sterngewehr with an action cover could command a hell of a price. I would bet on it being off standard rather than Spandau assembled.
 
Mauser 1908 brought up some very good points. I would also check how the stock looks where the action cover is. Original covers that have been on rifles for a long time will show wear on the stock in those areas. Sometimes you will see really nice condition guns with original action covers but they were added later.

When you get to see the rifle again look for a star on the top of the receiver. And take a really good look at the stock proofs.
 
Mauser 1908 brought up some very good points. I would also check how the stock looks where the action cover is. Original covers that have been on rifles for a long time will show wear on the stock in those areas. Sometimes you will see really nice condition guns with original action covers but they were added later.

When you get to see the rifle again look for a star on the top of the receiver. And take a really good look at the stock proofs.

Great point, didn’t even think about that. Here is one of mine that illustrates this perfect, popped into my head the second I read that.

310F915B-0B54-43B3-A839-A84401309EC0.jpg1E48A60C-724D-4F9F-935D-30BA7389204B.jpgBD82DD7B-295C-49C1-984C-F8C9855F94D9.jpg

This is from a Danzig 1900 you can see the black stain that wraps all the way around either stained from moisture or oil trapped under where the cover mounted. You would think they would be more common with the amount of rifles you see that on.
 
What variation of action cover?
Leather, cloth, metal (one piece / two piece)?
Maker markings?
One out of ten (two piece) action covers is original. At least over here.
Attached some old shots.
On the photos showing three covers, the left one is REPRO!
 

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Frank, The others gave solid advice. Way too risky to pay what a real trench cover would be worth and not knowing it was real, - the difference is hundreds of dollars. Stiffing friends is always best avoided, but that is a two way street, I am sure he is just as concerned as you are and the only way to make a fair offer (for either party) is for more information.

I assume that while your friend can't send you pictures (lack of a camera) that he can receive pictures with a short text that describes certain differences? If so perhaps he can use these pictures and description to distinguishing real from reproduction, or at least mitigate the risk to you? I will email you some comparisons and what to look for, they are readily known to collectors, and generally probably more effective dealing with an older reproduction. (newer ones might be better)

Regarding the rifle, Sam was right in that a Spandau/17 is a tricky rifle, odds are long that it is real (Spandau made), the serial suffix could narrow its actual maker down (lower could be Spandau, higher could be Danzig or others, a number or star a sterngewehr...); if real Spandau and more matching/original that you seem to describe, then it would be more valuable, less original less valuable.A real Spandau/17 or WMO Spandau/17 is more desirable (rarer anyway) than a Danzig made or run of the mill sterngewehr.
 
Bringing back this thread to show photos and get opinions of the rifle I actually bought, and not what I thought I was getting. The only thing I got right on my original description was it is a Gew 98 and it has a trench cover.

Two primary questions I would like opinions on.
1) is the trench cover original or repro?
2) any chance the lined out and renumbered bolt is period done?

Now the rifle, a total mixmaster.

Danzig 1915

receiver, 8958b
barrel, 8958b
TG, 5132
floor plate, 13
Rear TG screw, 31
upper band, 19
lower band, 23
Cleaning rod, 38
Bolt root, 296 (lined out) bolt ball, 8958
bolt release, 33
rear sight, 76
hand guard, 8388
stock, appears to be 8958 stamped over the original number, no visible number in the barrel channel (heavily varnished)

As you can see, the only number that matches the receiver is the renumbered bolt, and stock?
 

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Next set of pictures
 

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A few more
 

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Clearly a depot rebuilt rifle explains all the mismatched parts. Judging by the butt plate markings, this rifle has had a long career. But you got yourself a nice original cleaning rod which is not something cheap to find nowadays, and a really nice action cover. You can clearly tell the action cover was not added recently by the markings on the stock it's been on this rifle for a long time. By the way thank you for showing a picture of the barrel code!

Still I can tell the rest of the rifle's parts has been on this rifle for a long time. Not to mention finding any dated 1915 made rifle in nice condition is tough, really tough.
 
Clearly a depot rebuilt rifle explains all the mismatched parts. Judging by the butt plate markings, this rifle has had a long career. But you got yourself a nice original cleaning rod which is not something cheap to find nowadays, and a really nice action cover. You can clearly tell the action cover was not added recently by the markings on the stock it's been on this rifle for a long time. By the way thank you for showing a picture of the barrel code!

Still I can tell the rest of the rifle's parts has been on this rifle for a long time. Not to mention finding any dated 1915 made rifle in nice condition is tough, really tough.

Thank you for the comments. When my friend delivered the rifle he also brought me a nice original bayonet and scabbard, so I think I did alright.
 
I agree, the rifle and cover look genuine, - this rifle is typical of Imperial reworks, they "generally" did not bother with re-serialing every small component replaced, but they ALWAYS do the stock and bolt handle. These methods vary in style and placement, the quality of the work also varies, but this rifle is very typical of an average rifle that passed through a collection center.

The barrel code, is this a BI or BJ? This early in 1915 I would guess BJ is what it should be, but by 1916 Danzig was marking Bismarckhütte BI; not enough recordings to be very confident with my guesswork here. Imperialists do not usually take the time to record the BC, whereas with the 98k about a third or more do (which means guess work on the 98k is a lot more accurate)

BTW, can you provide the right receiver acceptance?
 
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Pictures of Barrel markings and right side receiver
 

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Thanks Frank, although an imperfect strike, I will go with BJ 22, as it looks more likely and fits others nearby. For some reason Danzing switched/used BI sometime in late 1915-1916, I am pretty sure its Bismarckhütte that BJ & BI represent, though I am less sure about why the change. They did start using roman/latin characters earlier than most others, generally introduced during 1916, but not sure if that is related.
 
Loewe, thanks to you and Warrior for the information on the dust cover and the restamped bolt and stock. This is the first dust cover I have ever owned, and had no idea if
it was legitimate or not.

Paul, I have a Gew. 98, Mausers manufacturer, sn 264g, do you have that one in your data base? If not I will get you pictures.
 
1915 WMO 264/g I do not have recorded. Would like to get its factory data (receiver and BC data, stock acceptance if factory)
 

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