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Thread: Simson 1916 depot Gew 98

  1. #11
    RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual heavy_mech's Avatar
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    You did a great job bringing back a wonderful rifle! Great job.
    "Wen Tausend einen Mann erschlagen, das ist nicht Ruhm, das ist nicht Ehre, denn beinsen wird's in späteren tagen gesiegt hat doch das Deutsch Heer. Podest nicht die Paten der Soldaten doner die da Sterben sollen, soll man geben was sie wollen, sahs sie Herzen, sahs sie Küssen, den sie wissen nicht wann sie sterben müssen"

  2. #12
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    That is very sound advise and very difficult to live by... many get frustrated and start taking shortcuts or end up half done thinking they will go back to it.

    The BC is interesting, but others early in production are recorded Kr.1 and Kr.7, what is odd isn't the low number lot on such an early rifle, rather it is how fast Krupp lots jump, by the b-block they are in the hundreds... apparently they are not progressive in the sense of a steady rise, or perhaps Simson got lots in-between huge orders for other rifle makers. Of course too little has been recorded to be scientific and empirical evidence leaves a lot to be desired in accuracy (as our environmental/climate change "scientists" find out every time they open their mouths with a new theory..).

    I was kind of debbie downer on this rifle, but it cleaned up better than expected, - and perhaps my expectations were lower because I may have given Jordan less credit of doing such a good job, thinking he might have the resolve I usually have in such labor intensive projects, which is to say after 6 hours the odds of being a big quiter improves dramatically! Bravo you stood toe to toe with this one - and won!

    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior1354 View Post

    I kept telling myself in my head "Jordan its 103 years old worth of neglect you're not going to finish it in one night."

  3. #13
    ax - hole Warrior1354's Avatar
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    Thank you for the kind words Paul but I can't take all the credit I did have a good teacher you know. After all it was you that have told me countless times over the years when it comes to collecting be patient! So I took that to heart when it came to restoring as well. When it comes to projects like this if I did get a little bit frustrated I just walked away from it and did something else. But for me when you see your work being done and how you're bringing history alive again. Undoing years of neglect and how the rifle just keeps looking better and better slowly. You so much more excited to see it finished. I mean the first thing I worked on was that barreled receiver and how I saw that Simson logo look that good after four hours of careful cleaning. I couldn't help but sit there and look at it for a few minutes and just go wow.
    "Don't use your musket if you can kill 'em with your hatchet"

    Major Robert Rogers 1757 Founder of the U.S Army Rangers

  4. #14
    Senior Member mauser1908's Avatar
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    Paul, How many blanks generally came per lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    That is very sound advise and very difficult to live by... many get frustrated and start taking shortcuts or end up half done thinking they will go back to it.

    The BC is interesting, but others early in production are recorded Kr.1 and Kr.7, what is odd isn't the low number lot on such an early rifle, rather it is how fast Krupp lots jump, by the b-block they are in the hundreds... apparently they are not progressive in the sense of a steady rise, or perhaps Simson got lots in-between huge orders for other rifle makers. Of course too little has been recorded to be scientific and empirical evidence leaves a lot to be desired in accuracy (as our environmental/climate change "scientists" find out every time they open their mouths with a new theory..).

    I was kind of debbie downer on this rifle, but it cleaned up better than expected, - and perhaps my expectations were lower because I may have given Jordan less credit of doing such a good job, thinking he might have the resolve I usually have in such labor intensive projects, which is to say after 6 hours the odds of being a big quiter improves dramatically! Bravo you stood toe to toe with this one - and won!

  5. #15
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    I only say that because I never had the patience myself and paid for it many times over... it is always easier to droll out good advice than taking your own (another I never stuck with is consistency, try and find your path and stick to it... I strode around like stumblebum, going from 1933-1938, probably thinking they were less "nazi", which is absurd, then G43's, then any ole 98k at a decent price, then Imperials, then 98a, then Simson/BSW, then Loewe, and now I bounce around from research project to the next rarely finishing any project..)


    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior1354 View Post
    I can't take all the credit I did have a good teacher you know. After all it was you that have told me countless times over the years when it comes to collecting be patient!

  6. #16
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Hard to say for sure, Simson didn't use only Krupp, they were fond of Böhler, Bergische Stahl-Industrie & Bismarckhütte too. Below are what I have recorded for Krupp, generally progressive, large gaps, but of course a very limited sample.

    1916 Simson 4656 Kr 1
    1916 Simson 7140 Kr.1
    1916 Simson 3812 a Kr.7
    1916 Simson 9364 b Kr.276c
    1916 Simson 6703 c Kr.7

    1917 Simson 7404 Kr 43
    1917 Simson 1765 a Kr 122
    1917 Simson 5905 b Kr 399
    1917 Simson 9015 c Kr 562
    1917 Simson 2429 d Kr.565

    1918 Simson 1806 Kr. 861


    Quote Originally Posted by mauser1908 View Post
    Paul, How many blanks generally came per lot?

  7. #17
    ax - hole Warrior1354's Avatar
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    Thank you for the information provided Paul I'll have to add that to my research study. But still I'm just glad to finally own a rifle made by this manufacturer it's only been five years of hunting!
    "Don't use your musket if you can kill 'em with your hatchet"

    Major Robert Rogers 1757 Founder of the U.S Army Rangers

  8. #18
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    Steel lot codes could be a lifetimes research in itself, and a quagmire you would likely never escape. Short of original documentation for blank orders, it would be only guesses at too many variables.

    Typically even the largest manufacturers do not get an “entire” lot code, unless it is a very specialized product. Typically there is a 3rd party distributor, which further breaks up the lots and muddies the numbers.

    Paul, I would be very interested if you have any documentation or sales literature in regards to the various Arsenal’s dealing direct and what quantities they dealt in. I would suspect based on what I have read, they, as today, projected monthly lead times and needs and ordered based on that projection.

    When I order in steel, I could get 6 bars with the same lot code, 6 different lot codes, or a mix.

    If you need 5000 barrels a month the core of the order will likely be one code depending on what your supplier has on hand. I’d have to pull storz and speed to remind myself whether barrels were supplied as a formed blank or raw steel.

    Sorry for the tangent, a subject I find very interesting.

  9. #19
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    If I have anything on barrel blank ordering, it would be something Jon Speed sent years ago, I have it organized, but not that organized (to find specialized subjects, it isn't indexed, more like month-year and content); I remember Jon sending me significant numbers of invoice like material from the various suppliers, not for ordering blanks necessarily, rather for letter heads and illustrating the steel mills involved, much of this was WWII era.

    My purpose is not in trying to interpret blank codes or their patterns, rather my intention is to find which steel makers supplied which firm, how often and if possible to see if the lots are progressive (as a generalized tool to date rifles from barrels, which is to some degree possible, because of the acceptance found on barrels, - acceptance generally falls in ranges, even for Danzig which is so diverse it defies normal trending sometimes). Also the variation of the codes used, which aids is identifying rifles with limited pictures or details, - often I can guess a maker by a barrel alone, typically a general date range.

    Anyway, probably for other superficial reasons also, - I like steel making firms also, so i like to track what and who they supplied, though generally i have collected so many articles and pieces of data it is like hunting for something in a hoarders home, you may know you have it but finding it is next to impossible, even I can spend an hour or more searching for something in my files, which are fairly organized.

    Either way, if this project is a boondoggle, or waste of time, it wouldn't be the first. Besides, this is not an attempt at an academic study, though most academic studies I have seen are on equally superficial subjects or "problems". Perhaps if I can link a study on German military rifle barrel codes to transgender (trannies) predilections, or black housewives television viewing in the afternoon on Wednesdays, or the favorite sex toys among white lesbians from Minneapolis during 2014-2016 I too could get a federal grant?

  10. #20
    ax - hole Warrior1354's Avatar
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    Well got the firing pin back and the rifle speaks again! Was an absolute joy to shoot this rifle not to mention always great to see life brought back to these fire arms again.

    I noticed the more I worked the bolt faster seemed like the rifle shot better. Maybe the rifle was telling me it too has been quiet for too long!

    Just a basic target at a hundred yards but I thought the rifle grouped pretty good for something that wasn't zero to me and hadn't been shot for so long.
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    Last edited by Warrior1354; 04-22-2019 at 11:10 PM.
    "Don't use your musket if you can kill 'em with your hatchet"

    Major Robert Rogers 1757 Founder of the U.S Army Rangers

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