Third Party Press

Simson 1916 depot Gew 98

Warrior1354

ax - hole
Well here it is in all its glory, finally done with the restoration project. The total time to get this fine Gew 98 back to it's original glory and undoing 103 years of neglect was around 12-14 hours. Cleaned the metal with kroil oil and bronze wool, the stock was pretty much wiped down, parts were soaked in oil, nylon brush cleaned the smaller stuff, and the barrel was cleaned with old fashion hoppes. Put it this way I cleaned everything guys. After soaking the capture screws and ejector box I was even able to bring back their original fire bluing color!

Now for the overall rifle, came out of old collection from an older gentleman is what I have been told. It has been through a depot and has the scars to prove it. The stock shows damaged in some areas that was either fixed or cut out? I was told the holes in the stock were caused by this rifle being mounted to a wall for all those years. But there is a heavily marked area on the left side of the stock like it got hot for some reason. The rifle did pass through a depot by the #4 mark on the buttplate. And they did alot of work on this once 100% matching rifle. They replaced the entire trigger guard assembly. Not only that renumbered a bolt body to match the rifle. The rest of bolt assembly unfortunately is not matching. The bolt release, trigger sear, lower barrel band were also replaced too. Handguard is also not matching its unmarked and its been damaged.

Now the good news the stock is matching as well as the barrel and receiver. Plus a few other parts that I will list. Also take a close look at the barrel serial number it has a factory error. You can see a number was stamped over another number, thought that was neat. Look closely and you will see it.

So is this rifle perfect and all matching no. But its a hell of place holder and I'm damn happy to own this piece. Plus it really makes you proud of what these rifles can look like with the right care and patience. So not a bad purchase for $575!

Maker: Simson Suhl 1916

Receiver SN: 4656
Barrel SN: 4645 Kr1
Front sight SN: 56
Rear sight SN: 56
Sight Slider SN: 56
Ejector box SN: 42
Trigger Sear SN: 10
Front barrel band SN: 56
Rear barrel band SN: 83
Trigger guard SN: 6496
Trigger guard screws SN: 56 and 20
Floor Plate SN: 96
Follower SN: 96
Stock SN: 4656
Handguard SN: unmarked
Buttplate SN: 4656 #4 Köln
Bayonet lug SN: 56
Cleaning Rod SN: 73
Bolt body SN: 4656
Extractor SN: 16
Safety SN: 66
Cocking piece SN: 61
Bolt sleeve SN: 61
Firing pin SN: 61

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Man, that just turned out awesome! And you should be in the hoosegow for stealing it! :laugh:

You did a great job!
 
I'll say again, I'm so glad you went for this one. You got a killer deal on it and it cleaned up wonderfully. Just a fantastic job and a really cool rifle, as far as I'm concerned!
 
Thanks Mike and Danny you're the one that kept pressuring me to buy it saying it will clean up better! You know I keep sitting here looking at this rifle and it's hard to believe that it is the same rifle that I bought just a week ago. During the restoration process I kept telling myself go slowly. I worked very hard to just clean the rifle and bring it back to its original state and undo the age of neglect.

I kept telling myself in my head "Jordan its 103 years old worth of neglect you're not going to finish it in one night."

And I'll say this once that firing pin gets fixed she will shoot fire again! This rifle has been silent for too long.
 
Beautiful rifle! Great job on the clean up, looks fantastic. I think my favorite part about this one is the factory error barrel SN and the Krupp 1 barrel code.
 
Beautiful rifle! Great job on the clean up, looks fantastic. I think my favorite part about this one is the factory error barrel SN and the Krupp 1 barrel code.

Isn't that cool! It almost looks like someone stamped a #5 and was like oh crap that should have been a #6!
 
That is very sound advise and very difficult to live by... many get frustrated and start taking shortcuts or end up half done thinking they will go back to it.

The BC is interesting, but others early in production are recorded Kr.1 and Kr.7, what is odd isn't the low number lot on such an early rifle, rather it is how fast Krupp lots jump, by the b-block they are in the hundreds... apparently they are not progressive in the sense of a steady rise, or perhaps Simson got lots in-between huge orders for other rifle makers. Of course too little has been recorded to be scientific and empirical evidence leaves a lot to be desired in accuracy (as our environmental/climate change "scientists" find out every time they open their mouths with a new theory..).

I was kind of debbie downer on this rifle, but it cleaned up better than expected, - and perhaps my expectations were lower because I may have given Jordan less credit of doing such a good job, thinking he might have the resolve I usually have in such labor intensive projects, which is to say after 6 hours the odds of being a big quiter improves dramatically! Bravo you stood toe to toe with this one - and won!

I kept telling myself in my head "Jordan its 103 years old worth of neglect you're not going to finish it in one night."
 
Thank you for the kind words Paul but I can't take all the credit I did have a good teacher you know. After all it was you that have told me countless times over the years when it comes to collecting be patient! So I took that to heart when it came to restoring as well. When it comes to projects like this if I did get a little bit frustrated I just walked away from it and did something else. But for me when you see your work being done and how you're bringing history alive again. Undoing years of neglect and how the rifle just keeps looking better and better slowly. You so much more excited to see it finished. I mean the first thing I worked on was that barreled receiver and how I saw that Simson logo look that good after four hours of careful cleaning. I couldn't help but sit there and look at it for a few minutes and just go wow.
 
Paul, How many blanks generally came per lot?

That is very sound advise and very difficult to live by... many get frustrated and start taking shortcuts or end up half done thinking they will go back to it.

The BC is interesting, but others early in production are recorded Kr.1 and Kr.7, what is odd isn't the low number lot on such an early rifle, rather it is how fast Krupp lots jump, by the b-block they are in the hundreds... apparently they are not progressive in the sense of a steady rise, or perhaps Simson got lots in-between huge orders for other rifle makers. Of course too little has been recorded to be scientific and empirical evidence leaves a lot to be desired in accuracy (as our environmental/climate change "scientists" find out every time they open their mouths with a new theory..).

I was kind of debbie downer on this rifle, but it cleaned up better than expected, - and perhaps my expectations were lower because I may have given Jordan less credit of doing such a good job, thinking he might have the resolve I usually have in such labor intensive projects, which is to say after 6 hours the odds of being a big quiter improves dramatically! Bravo you stood toe to toe with this one - and won!
 
I only say that because I never had the patience myself and paid for it many times over... it is always easier to droll out good advice than taking your own (another I never stuck with is consistency, try and find your path and stick to it... I strode around like stumblebum, going from 1933-1938, probably thinking they were less "nazi", which is absurd, then G43's, then any ole 98k at a decent price, then Imperials, then 98a, then Simson/BSW, then Loewe, and now I bounce around from research project to the next rarely finishing any project..)


I can't take all the credit I did have a good teacher you know. After all it was you that have told me countless times over the years when it comes to collecting be patient!
 
Hard to say for sure, Simson didn't use only Krupp, they were fond of Böhler, Bergische Stahl-Industrie & Bismarckhütte too. Below are what I have recorded for Krupp, generally progressive, large gaps, but of course a very limited sample.

1916 Simson 4656 Kr 1
1916 Simson 7140 Kr.1
1916 Simson 3812 a Kr.7
1916 Simson 9364 b Kr.276c
1916 Simson 6703 c Kr.7

1917 Simson 7404 Kr 43
1917 Simson 1765 a Kr 122
1917 Simson 5905 b Kr 399
1917 Simson 9015 c Kr 562
1917 Simson 2429 d Kr.565

1918 Simson 1806 Kr. 861


Paul, How many blanks generally came per lot?
 
Thank you for the information provided Paul I'll have to add that to my research study. But still I'm just glad to finally own a rifle made by this manufacturer it's only been five years of hunting!
 
Steel lot codes could be a lifetimes research in itself, and a quagmire you would likely never escape. Short of original documentation for blank orders, it would be only guesses at too many variables.

Typically even the largest manufacturers do not get an “entire” lot code, unless it is a very specialized product. Typically there is a 3rd party distributor, which further breaks up the lots and muddies the numbers.

Paul, I would be very interested if you have any documentation or sales literature in regards to the various Arsenal’s dealing direct and what quantities they dealt in. I would suspect based on what I have read, they, as today, projected monthly lead times and needs and ordered based on that projection.

When I order in steel, I could get 6 bars with the same lot code, 6 different lot codes, or a mix.

If you need 5000 barrels a month the core of the order will likely be one code depending on what your supplier has on hand. I’d have to pull storz and speed to remind myself whether barrels were supplied as a formed blank or raw steel.

Sorry for the tangent, a subject I find very interesting.
 
If I have anything on barrel blank ordering, it would be something Jon Speed sent years ago, I have it organized, but not that organized (to find specialized subjects, it isn't indexed, more like month-year and content); I remember Jon sending me significant numbers of invoice like material from the various suppliers, not for ordering blanks necessarily, rather for letter heads and illustrating the steel mills involved, much of this was WWII era.

My purpose is not in trying to interpret blank codes or their patterns, rather my intention is to find which steel makers supplied which firm, how often and if possible to see if the lots are progressive (as a generalized tool to date rifles from barrels, which is to some degree possible, because of the acceptance found on barrels, - acceptance generally falls in ranges, even for Danzig which is so diverse it defies normal trending sometimes). Also the variation of the codes used, which aids is identifying rifles with limited pictures or details, - often I can guess a maker by a barrel alone, typically a general date range.

Anyway, probably for other superficial reasons also, - I like steel making firms also, so i like to track what and who they supplied, though generally i have collected so many articles and pieces of data it is like hunting for something in a hoarders home, you may know you have it but finding it is next to impossible, even I can spend an hour or more searching for something in my files, which are fairly organized.

Either way, if this project is a boondoggle, or waste of time, it wouldn't be the first. Besides, this is not an attempt at an academic study, though most academic studies I have seen are on equally superficial subjects or "problems". Perhaps if I can link a study on German military rifle barrel codes to transgender (trannies) predilections, or black housewives television viewing in the afternoon on Wednesdays, or the favorite sex toys among white lesbians from Minneapolis during 2014-2016 I too could get a federal grant?
 
Well got the firing pin back and the rifle speaks again! Was an absolute joy to shoot this rifle not to mention always great to see life brought back to these fire arms again.

I noticed the more I worked the bolt faster seemed like the rifle shot better. Maybe the rifle was telling me it too has been quiet for too long!

Just a basic target at a hundred yards but I thought the rifle grouped pretty good for something that wasn't zero to me and hadn't been shot for so long.
 

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