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Thread: reworked S/147 1937 - a discussion

  1. #1
    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    Default reworked S/147 1937 - a discussion

    Thought I'd post a rifle for discussion, a rifle I've posted before probably, but with a question - how much does a rework affect the value to you personally? Obviously originality matters, meaning what parts are legit/period replacements. Does the lack of a depot mark affect value? Condition? Most reworks are reworked for a reason, most of not all I have seen are well worn guns refurbished or rebarreled, many probably recovered after battle or heavy use (why rework a nice rifle?).

    My father taught me condition is everything, and condition is only trumped by rarity, but even then condition matters. Reworks aren't rare at all, but less common than bolt mismatch rifles and/or matching rifles. But, I like reworks - the condition is usually battle worn and salty, with that history of combat lurking in the wear and tear, not post war hunting and neglect. Maybe I'm a dreamer.

    This one has the barrel and hand guard replaced, but no visible depot stamp- the missing depot stamp makes one less desirable as that is usually the best way to authenticate them, but in this case its clearly original. Sideways firing proof, hand stamped barrel number. This one came just like this, sling and depot replacement cleaning rod. My own opinion is many of the unattributed reworks were done in the Posen depot system, as some that I see have traits (there's a 660 1940 in the Vol.II like that).

    So what is the general consensus among collectors about reworks - good? Should every collection have one?
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  2. #2
    Hey Buddy, is that an E/4 in your pocket?
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    For me it's all about code. A common code rework doesn't pull my train into the station. That said it has always seemed to me that without depot stamps most collectors look down their nose at reworks. I personally think many rifles got refitted in the field by waffenmeisters and think this is a prime example. I have built many k98's years ago when I could do it physically. I always ran into barreled receivers oddly enough, completed them and found in most cases they shot very straight requiring no fitting. Those requiring more attention to detail back in the war would go to a depot I'll guess while ones like this Sauer were done field level. Should every collection have one? Only if it's a bSw… lol

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bob in OHIO's Avatar
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    I think there is an evolution in collecting rifles. Early on, the textbook examples are most appealing, but with time, there is a certain boredom w/ textbook, and growing interest in the odd ball stuff.

    email => K98@bobinohio.com

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    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    Two good points, I think Bob nailed it. As your collection ages, you see the value in repaired rifles and "different", mostly because you get comfortable with what is legit and feel like you can make a good call on a rework.

    As to field Waffenmeisters replacing barrels, no - that was forbidden by regulation. Field repair shops did not have the proper oversight, proof testing rounds and equipment, nor the devices for re calibrating sights. You must have missed the memo.
    Order the new K98k book at www.thirdpartypress.com
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  5. #5
    EOD - bombs and bullets pzjgr's Avatar
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    I am with you Farb, I like them. To me it shows a rifle that has seen use, and in a lot of ways more interesting than any ol' regular all matching gun.

    I like the depot stamped ones, at least then you can see more of the story.

    As another plus, a lot of times these are priced below an all matching gun, so they can be had reasonably.

    As far as desirability to myself, there is no diminished desirability for these, although bolt mismatches don't bother me either.

    Conversely, you will typically aren't going to get that top dollar if you sell, but that doesn't matter to me either since I don't sell (well, very rarely anyway)

  6. #6
    I buy capture paper guns ugafx4's Avatar
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    I would love a rework for my collection. I too find them more interesting than a lot of the more common codes. The issue I run into, is the average seller has no idea what a rework is and they see that all of the numbers match and boom, it is priced as an all original matching rifle. I have yet to come across a deal on a matching depot rework. Hopefully soon!

  7. #7
    EOD - bombs and bullets pzjgr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugafx4 View Post
    I would love a rework for my collection. I too find them more interesting than a lot of the more common codes. The issue I run into, is the average seller has no idea what a rework is and they see that all of the numbers match and boom, it is priced as an all original matching rifle. I have yet to come across a deal on a matching depot rework. Hopefully soon!
    Well, in reality, if it is a legit depot re-work (and is all matching), it kind of should command the same price as a plain old all matching gun in like condition....

    Look at VZ's...German modified VZ's tend to go for more than unmodified VZ's...

    In the grand scheme of things a nice depot re-work probably should go for more than a plain jane matching gun, IMHO....

  8. #8
    Hey Buddy, is that an E/4 in your pocket?
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    Good Sunday discussion, we need more like this. I'm still working on a trade toward getting a 37' bSw rework rifle that has depot markings.

  9. #9
    Moderator˛ Pisgah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfarb View Post
    So what is the general consensus among collectors about reworks - good? Should every collection have one?
    I like them. So far as the rifle is in original WW2 issued condition it is okay with me. I think there is less demand for a rework because many collectors are looking for textbook examples and it takes more expertise to authenticate a rework. Less demand means fewer bidders and typically lower prices. Fine with me. They are interesting and it is always fun trying to imagine what led to the rifle being rebuilt. Finding a depot marking is always a bonus but I don't mind examples without. Here are photos of another S/147 1937 rebuild which was recently sold at auction. No depot marking but the way in which it was renumbered is much more likely to be depot than postwar humper. It had its bolt and stock replaced. Comments welcome. I am sure some will consider it more controversial than Mike's example.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    WTB/WTT: (1)late E/H marked bcd stock either standard or semi-Kriegs; (2)unnumbered late MO Zf-41 stock, Kriegs or standard stock; (3)transitional late unnumbered type dot stock which uses bandspring and has bayo mount but no cleaning rod hole; (4)unnumbered byf standard stock as typically found on some byf 44 K and L block rifles; (5)unnumbered E/H bnz standard stock as typically found on bnz.4 and bnz 44 N, O, and P block rifles; (6)any bnz Kriegsmodell stock either with E/H or without

  10. #10
    Moderator˛ Pisgah's Avatar
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    A few more.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    WTB/WTT: (1)late E/H marked bcd stock either standard or semi-Kriegs; (2)unnumbered late MO Zf-41 stock, Kriegs or standard stock; (3)transitional late unnumbered type dot stock which uses bandspring and has bayo mount but no cleaning rod hole; (4)unnumbered byf standard stock as typically found on some byf 44 K and L block rifles; (5)unnumbered E/H bnz standard stock as typically found on bnz.4 and bnz 44 N, O, and P block rifles; (6)any bnz Kriegsmodell stock either with E/H or without

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