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Thread: reworked S/147 1937 - a discussion

  1. #11
    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    A few more.
    I like it. This is what I would consider a "field rework", potentially by the Feldwerkstatte. With this rifle, only the bolt is replaced - normally you would think a bolt replacement requires reproofing, but it doesn't because the bolt body has already undergone proof testing even if it was with another action. This rifle is reworked with a reclaimed bolt, perfectly allowable from what I have seen in larger depot work with no reproofing.

    Armorers chest had replacement bolts in them, bolts that were blued and pressure test proofed. Armorers were supplied replacement stocks too, and numbering dies. Not all replaced stocks I have seen were numbered either, which makes it impossible to authenticate. IMO this work was done by an old school Waffenmeister.
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  2. #12
    I buy capture paper guns ugafx4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzjgr View Post
    Well, in reality, if it is a legit depot re-work (and is all matching), it kind of should command the same price as a plain old all matching gun in like condition....

    Look at VZ's...German modified VZ's tend to go for more than unmodified VZ's...

    In the grand scheme of things a nice depot re-work probably should go for more than a plain jane matching gun, IMHO....

    I entirely agree with you! Your pricing goes against traditional collecting norms however. Factory guns are where the premiums lie.

  3. #13
    "Ach du lieber!" Bigdibbs88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfarb View Post
    Thought I'd post a rifle for discussion, a rifle I've posted before probably, but with a question - how much does a rework affect the value to you personally? Obviously originality matters, meaning what parts are legit/period replacements. Does the lack of a depot mark affect value? Condition? Most reworks are reworked for a reason, most of not all I have seen are well worn guns refurbished or rebarreled, many probably recovered after battle or heavy use (why rework a nice rifle?).

    My father taught me condition is everything, and condition is only trumped by rarity, but even then condition matters. Reworks aren't rare at all, but less common than bolt mismatch rifles and/or matching rifles. But, I like reworks - the condition is usually battle worn and salty, with that history of combat lurking in the wear and tear, not post war hunting and neglect. Maybe I'm a dreamer.

    This one has the barrel and hand guard replaced, but no visible depot stamp- the missing depot stamp makes one less desirable as that is usually the best way to authenticate them, but in this case its clearly original. Sideways firing proof, hand stamped barrel number. This one came just like this, sling and depot replacement cleaning rod. My own opinion is many of the unattributed reworks were done in the Posen depot system, as some that I see have traits (there's a 660 1940 in the Vol.II like that).

    So what is the general consensus among collectors about reworks - good? Should every collection have one?
    As we all know reworking knocks value down quite a bit compared to an otherwise matching non rework, but I think they are undervalued for their history. Personally I'd buy a combat gun over a minty piece because i like them- and as you mentioned thats what most of these are. I got out of them simply because of the opportunity for fakery and post war "corrections" combined with the fact that the pool of people knowledgeable enough to know what they are looking at is pretty small. As a collecting niche I think they provide an endless opportunity for unique examples.

  4. #14
    Senior Member flynaked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfarb View Post
    IMO this work was done by an old school Waffenmeister.
    Is it the dots after the serials that leads you to that opinion, just curious? That seems to show up more so on Weimar era reworks right?

  5. #15
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    I have a decent collection of "ordinary" issue rifles, and for me the reworks have an appeal that that may be difficult to understand, but these rifles are each unique in their history.

    They represent the reality of the battlefield, where equipment gets beat up, damaged or worn out.

    The salvaged / reworked / rebuilt guns tell of desperate times, desperate measures to get vital and necessary weapons [repaired / refurbished ] into the hands of troops as quickly as possible .

  6. #16
    Senior Member Eh jbmauser's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind a rework of some sort but there aren't a lot of reworked byf44's out there.
    WTB: Rough milled, blued, unnumbered floor plate as found on late MO rifles. Unnumbered MO bands, both KM and standard type, MO KM stocks including an unaccepted one, MO bands and stock 5897, upper band 0643

  7. #17
    Maple Syrup Mod Eh CanadianAR's Avatar
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    I like reworks. Never got one. I’d like to still. I think the marked ones carry a premium, but as much as a matched textbook gun? Maybe not. To me, the depot marking tells a tale no other rifle can tell,
    Which direction the gun first went. Not exactly GPS but you now know two places on the map it’s been over one. They definitely tell a story.
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  8. #18
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    The problem is learning to tell real from "4th Reich Bubba Jobs".

    Especially true for guns that have no apparent depot stamps.

    The good news is that Bubba almost always overdoes his enhancement techniques, and the result really stands out as non period work.

  9. #19
    Keeper of the Def's Head M1903A3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveDavis View Post
    I have a decent collection of "ordinary" issue rifles, and for me the reworks have an appeal that that may be difficult to understand, but these rifles are each unique in their history.

    They represent the reality of the battlefield, where equipment gets beat up, damaged or worn out.

    The salvaged / reworked / rebuilt guns tell of desperate times, desperate measures to get vital and necessary weapons [repaired / refurbished ] into the hands of troops as quickly as possible .
    Agreed, right on the money. You KNOW these reworks saw combat and needed repair. Of all the possible conditions a rifle could come down to us in today, the reworks are the ones we can be the most sure of having been in heavy combat. I not only think they are fine for collecting, I think that in a way they carry a “badge of honor” (or whatever you might call it) that other rifles do not.

    For analyzing originality and manufacturing they are less desirable, but it would be silly to collect and research combat equipment and THEN de-value equipment THAT SAW COMBAT! I would thus say that every serious collector ought to try to have one in their collection.


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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveDavis View Post
    The problem is learning to tell real from "4th Reich Bubba Jobs".

    Especially true for guns that have no apparent depot stamps.

    The good news is that Bubba almost always overdoes his enhancement techniques, and the result really stands out as non period work.
    It would be cool to have one but I would get multiple opinions from guys who know what they're doing before paying for it. Just IMO from a relative newb.

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