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Thread: Ww1 Death head Luger

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    Default Ww1 Death head Luger

    I need help from experts here. I have found one on a large gun dealer. I have not got permission to use the pics yet. Itís a 1918 DWM. With no connection to ww2 nazi they stated. Question here is there such a thing? And second would be fair value? Iím very weary of fakes.

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    There are none that came from the factory with such markings- nor did units mark theirs in such a way, the markings as they used were initials. Without pictures it is hard to say but it is to me obvious that the marking was applied post-manufacture and therefore opens a century-wide window for such shenanigans. Sturmtruppen (most often associated with such) were initially an ad-hoc formation and I haven't seen any indication that their weapons were marked in any particular or consistent way. My two cents, good luck!

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    Senior Member mauser1908's Avatar
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    I would get a full spread of pictures and take it to luger.gunboards.com. The short of it is, it stands a chance being original given it's a 1918 Dated gun. Both Erfurt and DWM examples are know, the overwhelming majority being 1918 Dated pistols, 1917 Dates are sprinkled throughout as well. It's doubtful that anything prior to 1917 is legitimate. There is no hard evidence that these are linked to any military organization or paramilitary for that matter, in addition to having no ties to the Nazi era. There are a few major theories as to what these are attributed to.

    1. Garde Reserve Pionier Regiment- those of which that contained flame-thrower units.

    2. Sturmbataillon

    3. Freikorps

    4. Tank Crews

    The timeline for the development of those unit types also validates the fact that 'legitimate' examples are confined to 1917 and 1918 dated guns. That being said there's plenty of well known experts out there that think these fall into two categories: outright fakes and likely fakes.

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    The gun is on Simpon Ltd itís item number is sku:C41111. I donít have permission to post their stuff. I ask them to email me pics and they replied they donít do that. So I have no pics to post here. If someone could look at it would be fantastic but if not I do understand. Thank you in advance.

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    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    Default Ww1 Death head Luger

    Iím not familiar with WW1 ďdeathsheadĒ Lugers personally, but I can tell you that the one you are asking about at Simpsonís would be an SS deaths head Luger. That deaths head with the lazy S is typically found on SS rework Gewehr rifles, and IMO indicates a rework (not proven, but imo this would be work done at Sachsenhausen). SS depots marked the deathshead on reworks to indicate repairs, not so much ownership although I suspect it performed both jobs.

    So a well respected Luger dealer is selling that Luger but does not mention it being SS associated? How does that make you feel? Surely they know this if itís genuine.

    I canít tell fake ones from real as I donít study them and wouldnít buy one myself, sounds like you have a lot to learn before you do as well. But, if you have $3200 to heave at a guess then go for it. I kinda feel like you have as much chance of it being real as fake, 50/50.


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    Thank you Mcfarb. I know you are well respected in the community. I have talked to them and gave specs and ask if I had any questions? I was told by them that itís in fact a mark that was used during ww1 in 1917/18. And was verified by them. How I do not know. I ask if it was an SS weapon and told no. He said that the lazy s was used back then as well. I was told it was on hold for me till Monday so I could move funds. I guess I ask all the wrong questions. So Monday I will as them is it a fake strait out?

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    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    I'm not saying its fake at all, IMO I can't really tell from these photos and might not be able to in hand either. If Luger collectors think these are from WW1, then I am not going to get in the middle of that (but I can tell you I doubt very seriously that this skull marking is from WW1, that is my opinion but like I said I do NOT collect these and never would). Making fake deathshead Lugers would be so easy from the limited info I have seen on them over the years. In general, reworks are a mine field in the 98k world but if you study hard and dedicate yourself to the breed they actually get easier. SS stuff is the same way - its a minefield but as you learn more and get a feel for things you can buy with more confidence.

    Compare that skull marking to some SS Gew reworks and see if you don't think there is an easy connection. Note that the SS Gew reworks have the same skull, and nobody suggest that they are from WW1. The SS got WW1 Rifles and Pistols and used them quite a bit. If as is suggested in this thread the majority are 1917-1918 dated, the obvious fact of those being the least used after the war would make them good candidates for postwar use.

    Anyway, just giving you my opinion.
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    Thank you again mrfarb you knowlois greatly appreciated. I as for a spread and was giving a no their site pics was good enough. I felt very off about such a comment. Itís a lot of money and that should be the least they could do for a loyal customer.i have spent goo deals of money with them and never had any trouble but never ask for better pics either. Here is a copy of the email
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    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willy View Post
    Thank you again mrfarb you knowlois greatly appreciated. I as for a spread and was giving a no their site pics was good enough. I felt very off about such a comment. Itís a lot of money and that should be the least they could do for a loyal customer.i have spent goo deals of money with them and never had any trouble but never ask for better pics either. Here is a copy of the email
    Most of their photos lack clarity, its the camera or processing. Do they have an inspection period? I would think that is a given. An in hand inspection should help you out.
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  10. #10
    I buy capture paper guns ugafx4's Avatar
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    That is a bizarre answer. Guess you should just trust them

    While poking around, here is an example from their site that shows the deaths head and an eagle/gw3 rework mark.

    https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...eathshead.html

    Here is some talk about the e/gw3 mark https://luger.gunboards.com/archive/...hp/t-6405.html

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