G98 update 1935
- Thread starter JACKDANIELS
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JACKDANIELS
Senior Member
I see several depot marks, any could have done that. One is SuWW which is Spandau, they probably did the rear sight conversion. The more interesting one to me is the wrist "H.N.Za Da" which is HeeresNebenZeugamt Darmstadt, which is near Frankfurt. Either way, it could also have been done much later during WW2 by anyone, you will probably never know.
Have you a right receiver picture?
I agree it looks like a couple visits, some of the work is early than others, the stock looks like it might be original (Danzig/17) right acceptance and features anyway, though more pictures of the stock would be helpful here. A pretty nice rifle from the looks of it and i have never seen that HNZa acceptance on a rifle before.
I agree it looks like a couple visits, some of the work is early than others, the stock looks like it might be original (Danzig/17) right acceptance and features anyway, though more pictures of the stock would be helpful here. A pretty nice rifle from the looks of it and i have never seen that HNZa acceptance on a rifle before.
JACKDANIELS
Senior Member
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
Interesting for many reasons and thanks for sharing? Any theories as to where this rifle may have been hiding? Sees it had a long service life and several trips to a depot for modernization right? Early work included the rear sight update as Mike pointed out and then after '41 fitted for a hood at minimum. I don't see anything glaring that hints of additional work during the 2nd depot visit?
This rifle almost certainly was hidden throughout the Republican period, certainly not in inventory early as no property marking and far to clean for a rifle that saw training or in the service of a republican era soldier. Possibly a black rifle, the Reichsheer held stores of illegal rifles, largely caches hidden in the east, these were largely used to train and equip paramilitary groups (periodically), mostly right wing ones sympathetic to the Reichsheer (not nazis generally, they weren't right wing and they certainly didn't care for the Aristocracy, conservative-bureaucratic-religious elements, Republic or even the leadership in the Reichswehr), but pro-Republic paramilitary groups were involved also, especially in EP.
The only things that look replaced is the bolt, RS, follower, the RB with a modified wide band, and handguard. HZa Spandau probably did the majority of this work, probably late 1930's, the HNZa possibly the hood and handguard? Perhaps just inventoried it, often rifles pass through depots with almost no sign of work, this rifle hard to say, we do not see the TG, the but big ticket items (barrel/stock) are original, only the bolt replaced and it is pre-war style (nazi era they were spendthrifts, like our government thrift and frugality are the worse form of profanity... much after 1941 most G98's passing through a depot, with any serious problem, got scrapped or a facelift to 98k, basically recycling the receiver)
The only things that look replaced is the bolt, RS, follower, the RB with a modified wide band, and handguard. HZa Spandau probably did the majority of this work, probably late 1930's, the HNZa possibly the hood and handguard? Perhaps just inventoried it, often rifles pass through depots with almost no sign of work, this rifle hard to say, we do not see the TG, the but big ticket items (barrel/stock) are original, only the bolt replaced and it is pre-war style (nazi era they were spendthrifts, like our government thrift and frugality are the worse form of profanity... much after 1941 most G98's passing through a depot, with any serious problem, got scrapped or a facelift to 98k, basically recycling the receiver)
JACKDANIELS
Senior Member
I did not have photo's of this LK5 , I just make it
thank you for your analysis Loewe
Receveir, Barrel and bolt are reblued
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Not sure what to make of the partial eagle stamps on the rearsight sleeve, this sort of thing is not done, makes me suspicious, though I see nothing else that looks tampered with. When i saw them earlier it looked like stray dings or partial dents, never considered them being eagles...
LK5 is interesting, from my limited trends (very limited, hardly over a dozen) G98's make up half the observations, the rest a mix of 98k & French rifles. Maybe these clowns were responsible:
LK5 is interesting, from my limited trends (very limited, hardly over a dozen) G98's make up half the observations, the rest a mix of 98k & French rifles. Maybe these clowns were responsible:
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Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
My LK5 trends are also limited, so far I have 23 rifles and usually we would need more examples to provide an informative basis. Nevertheless, here is the percentage share:
Germany - 39,13% (K98k 21,74% and M98 17,39%)
France - 34,78%
Czech - 13,04%
Russia - 4,35%
Yugoslavia - 4,35%
Greece - 4,35%
Characteristic: Many have depot marks - current location or find spot is France
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JACKDANIELS
Senior Member
Thank Stephan and Thank Loewe
Stephan do you know some G98 'LK5' with front side protector?
Loewe, Are the partial eagle stamps on the rearsight sleeve consistent with that of the handguard? Spandau in 1939? with machined parts in 1935 or 1936?
The 2 'drilling' for the front side protector are not blued, they seems to have been made after
The trigger and sear are not stamping except a small 'tuning fork', the replacement would not have been done at the same time as bolt whose each piece of which is numbered?
The triggerer are reblued
Best regards
Stephan do you know some G98 'LK5' with front side protector?
Loewe, Are the partial eagle stamps on the rearsight sleeve consistent with that of the handguard? Spandau in 1939? with machined parts in 1935 or 1936?
The 2 'drilling' for the front side protector are not blued, they seems to have been made after
The trigger and sear are not stamping except a small 'tuning fork', the replacement would not have been done at the same time as bolt whose each piece of which is numbered?
The triggerer are reblued
Best regards
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There isn't sufficient examples, or pool of documented examples, to create patterns that can be used to tie characteristics to HZa's. To a limited degree we can loosely tie certain markings to depots, fireproofs in particular, but far too few baseline examples exist to set parameters (The Wehrkreis/Luftamt builds are the exception). While HZa Spandau is the most prolific HZa, that volume comes with complications, the diversity of inspectors, styles, methods are probably due to the span of years/inspectors and it is difficult to sort through it all (most of the rifles were heavily used also); the smaller depots have less diversity and variation to them, but often its one or two examples, or at most fewer than six and often they are little more than barreled receivers, - and when they are better rifles (more original) the rifle is rarely detailed to the degree one would need to use it as a baseline.
Anyway, I assume there is a reason why you post pictures of everything but the trigger guard and floorplate markings? If it doesn't match then that is fine and understandable, but from what you show the rifle looks for the most part original to the HZa Spandau upgrade (rearsight upgrade) where most of the modifications probably occurred. It is very possible the HNZa also did some of the work, the front sight modification, though it is also possible work was done later by another depot or postwar.
Evaluating ordnance reworked or upgraded rifles is never very accurate, especially when there are two or more ordnance stamps, which is why HZa rifles are typically discounted, there is always doubts, but your rifle is about as nice as they come and I see nothing that worries me. The eagles on the rearsight sleeve look like some attempt at tampering, but who can say, its a minor issue and only has relevance because when i see one thing off it makes me suspicious and less open to other discrepancies being innocent.
In short, I doubt you will find anyone that can credibly state what each HZa did (or didn't) or what is authentic period work, the only thing that is certain is the barrel is original to manufacture and the stock is period correct for a Danzig/17, both are imo factory to the rifle. The rest is open to interpretation, but from what is shown, the bolt and rearsight are clearly the type of work HZa Spandau would have done prior to the war.
Anyway, I assume there is a reason why you post pictures of everything but the trigger guard and floorplate markings? If it doesn't match then that is fine and understandable, but from what you show the rifle looks for the most part original to the HZa Spandau upgrade (rearsight upgrade) where most of the modifications probably occurred. It is very possible the HNZa also did some of the work, the front sight modification, though it is also possible work was done later by another depot or postwar.
Evaluating ordnance reworked or upgraded rifles is never very accurate, especially when there are two or more ordnance stamps, which is why HZa rifles are typically discounted, there is always doubts, but your rifle is about as nice as they come and I see nothing that worries me. The eagles on the rearsight sleeve look like some attempt at tampering, but who can say, its a minor issue and only has relevance because when i see one thing off it makes me suspicious and less open to other discrepancies being innocent.
In short, I doubt you will find anyone that can credibly state what each HZa did (or didn't) or what is authentic period work, the only thing that is certain is the barrel is original to manufacture and the stock is period correct for a Danzig/17, both are imo factory to the rifle. The rest is open to interpretation, but from what is shown, the bolt and rearsight are clearly the type of work HZa Spandau would have done prior to the war.
JACKDANIELS
Senior Member
