Sg.84/98 crs 41 "Tropical"

Just picked this up from Epic Artifacts in Texas. It's interesting because the set has the standard USGI laundry stamp on the frog, evidently of the GI who brought it back. The "H" is for the first letter of his last name and numbers are the last four of his service number.

Cool The camo paint on the scabbard is awesome!

58 hits..... maybe you know where this came from and can narrow it down? http://wwii-enlistment.com/search/?q=h7102&select=laundryNumber&quick-search=1

Thanks Uga, I had pulled that up. Basically no way to ID it with that many "H" surnames and last four. I had really thought there would be far fewer than that!

Hi
Pretty one. I don't remember which site I saw for sale..

B.r

Beautiful

I know it is difficult to tell in the frog, but I am curious how the scabbard is maker/date marked. The closest I have is 8609. 8609 scabbard is stamped crs over 41. I am curious if yours is the same.

I also love the paint on the scabbard. Looks like it has been there / done that.

From Epic Artifacts ..... HB when you have in hand can you peek behind the frog and see if the scabbard is Maker/Date marked? Weyersburg production in 1941 is very strange with some pieces only partially marked. An area of ongoing research. Great piece by the way ....

Very nice Ham! I also think it's an interesting piece.

Thanks guys. Yep, Aws, Slash, when I get it I will find out what's back there. If it comes out easily I'll pull the bayonet and take a pic. It looks like there is some air rust back there that I'd be wiping off anyway. Dave at Epic was a pleasure to deal with. I paid for this thing, but I've been looking for one that I felt comfortable with for a long time. The scabbard paint matches one of my helmets, so there's that, and I needed a crs 41, so there's that. That's how I justified it to myself at least.....

Hambone said:

Thanks guys. Yep, Aws, Slash, when I get it I will find out what's back there. If it comes out easily I'll pull the bayonet and take a pic. It looks like there is some air rust back there that I'd be wiping off anyway. Dave at Epic was a pleasure to deal with. I paid for this thing, but I've been looking for one that I felt comfortable with for a long time. The scabbard paint matches one of my helmets, so there's that, and I needed a crs 41, so there's that. That's how I justified it to myself at least.....

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You will not regret this purchase HB. Sometimes we have to pay up for the good stuff. Have worked with Dave as well and he is good people.

Unutt - IF the scabbard is marked it will be in the crs > 41 format. In the serial number studies the last confirmed crs > 41 scabbard is 9199 nlb. The first 41crs marked scabbard confirmed is 2176a. Have it fairly well narrowed down but always looking for additional data .....

Early PWCo 1941, should be crs/41 marked scabbard. b.r.Andy

That's a killer blade Craig and why didn't you tell me you bought something like this cool I guess you wanted to surprise me!

I am smitten...Outstanding piece! Don't think I have ever seen a "crs" of any date with year stamped on the spine. This must have been a very brief transition from the first code variant "crs" (over) 40. But then, it would not be Weyersberg, would it, with their myriad of oddball code/dating/numbering
schemes for 1941 ?

pwcosol said:

Don't think I have ever seen a "crs" of any date with year stamped on the spine. This must have been a very brief transition from the first code variant "crs" (over) 40.

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Weyersberg began 1941 production using the crs code with 41 spine date. This was the marking used for somewhere in the area of the first 7000 pieces. The first 41crs ricasso stamping in the serial number studies is 7362. There is however a transition period of at least 2000 pieces where either marking can be encountered. As an example 8609 (owned by member Unutt) is crs with 41 spine date.

Slash said:

Weyersberg began 1941 production using the crs code with 41 spine date. This was the marking used for somewhere in the area of the first 7000 pieces. The first 41crs ricasso stamping in the serial number studies is 7362. There is however a transition period of at least 2000 pieces where either marking can be encountered. As an example 8609 (owned by member Unutt) is crs with 41 spine date.

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Thanks Slash. Since this is the first time I have see a "crs" so marked, it was a revelation to me. Appreciate the detailed info...

41 spine date

Slash said:

Weyersberg began 1941 production using the crs code with 41 spine date. This was the marking used for somewhere in the area of the first 7000 pieces. The first 41crs ricasso stamping in the serial number studies is 7362. There is however a transition period of at least 2000 pieces where either marking can be encountered. As an example 8609 (owned by member Unutt) is crs with 41 spine date.

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And as you mentioned, only 590 serials later, 9199 (also owned by member Unutt) is dated on the ricasso. Since I bought my first unmatched Tr bayonet, 41crs has been my favorite year/maker, if not the most confusing.

I posted this picture on an FB page of which I am a member, but it serves here also. These are the 7 varieties of 41crs markings that I own, and I know of at least 4 others, two of which I was informed by Slash.

Unutt said:

And as you mentioned, only 590 serials later, 9199 (also owned by member Unutt) is dated on the ricasso. Since I bought my first unmatched Tr bayonet, 41crs has been my favorite year/maker, if not the most confusing.

I posted this picture on an FB page of which I am a member, but it serves here also. These are the 7 varieties of 41crs markings that I own, and I know of at least 4 others, two of which I was informed by Slash.

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Is there a bayonet collectors Facebook group? Interested in joining if you can give me the name. Thanks!

Unutt said:

And as you mentioned, only 590 serials later, 9199 (also owned by member Unutt) is dated on the ricasso. Since I bought my first unmatched Tr bayonet, 41crs has been my favorite year/maker, if not the most confusing. These are the 7 varieties of 41crs markings that I own, and I know of at least 4 others, two of which I was informed by Slash.

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Very nice grouping indeed! I was trying to figure out the "missing links" ("...at least 4 others") you referred to. I have a example with a very large "L" serial# suffix. Also examples with 5 digit serial number in the "e" & "s" blocs. Only aware of those two blocs exceeding 10,000 units (but might there be others?). Also recall seeing on Ebay a decade ago, a very nice "crs 41" marked bayonet & scabbard, but neither bayonet nor scabbard bore a serial number. In looking at your "e & s-bloc" examples, I noted the same inconsistencies seen in the "Tr" contract. Yet, in the main, Weyersberg production appears relatively normal outside those blocs (early 1941 excepted). Makes one think their must be some connection, but what that is, is anyone's guess...

Nice work with 41 crs samples, and nice collection Mike there.
The P.Weyersberg is little non consistent in 1941 in serialing, some ranges as e, S, Tr exceeded 10000 range, other are different marked as on beginn of 1941 production. We still dont known what is the explanation for Tr series?
Facebook site i dont known, but the old crew of BCN with John Jacobi should be active on FB: b.r.Andy

41crs

pwcosol said:

Very nice grouping indeed! I was trying to figure out the "missing links" ("...at least 4 others") you referred to. I have a example with a very large "L" serial# suffix. Also examples with 5 digit serial number in the "e" & "s" blocs. Only aware of those two blocs exceeding 10,000 units (but might there be others?). Also recall seeing on Ebay a decade ago, a very nice "crs 41" marked bayonet & scabbard, but neither bayonet nor scabbard bore a serial number. In looking at your "e & s-bloc" examples, I noted the same inconsistencies seen in the "Tr" contract. Yet, in the main, Weyersberg production appears relatively normal outside those blocs (early 1941 excepted). Makes one think their must be some connection, but what that is, is anyone's guess...

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The L series includes marked and unmarked versions, there exists a 5 digit S with both scabbard and ricasso marked, and Tr series that is not year or maker marked at all. If you count four digit Tr, that is another version. I was not aware that e block came in a 5 digit version. Yet another version.

I have never actually seen an 'L' series. Slash tells me the L is inline with the serial. Sort of like clc44 serials I guess.

Andy is correct about the facebook page. Name is K98k Bayonet Collectors Network. Lots of nice examples posted there.

1941 Weyersberg Production - Here is what I have been able to verify with several hundred serial numbers in the spreadsheets. Details are from ongoing unpublished research.

Weyersberg Serial Numbering Summary:

- no letter through d block (normal serializing*)

- e block which runs into five digits (lower case e)

- k block (some lower case k, some upper case K, some mixed k & K)

- L block (four digit with upper case L suffix - on one line)

- s block which runs into five digits (lower case s)

- Tr block which runs into five digits (several stamping styles/fonts exist including some serif others sans serif - with concluding period Tr. and without Tr)

* Normal serializing is four digit numbering above letter block

Examples of bayonets and scabbards lacking the maker/date stampings exist throughout all of these serial number ranges. There does not seem to be any order or consistency on where these pieces are observed. Seemingly purely at random. I do not consider them to be variations so much as error pieces or manufacturing oddities.

The e, S, and Tr blocks appear to be one in continuous series, each serialized from 1 into five digits. Production: e block over 11,000 - S block over 13,000 - Tr block over 17,000.

If anyone has 41crs pieces with letter blocks other than the above I would be very interested in the details. Many thanks in advance .....