Third Party Press

Danzig 1918

mauser1908

Senior Member
Well, with much anticipation here it is. Admittedly I was a little worried due to the quality of the auction photos but after unwrapping this one all my reservations melted away; I'm extremely pleased with this rifle, thanks to everyone here for all the help. I do believe this example is a WWI bring back rather than WWII given the configuration it's in. This rifle was extremely interesting to me given the Gl.V. marking, but I will say this rifle screams Danzig, you will see from the photos a few of the more crude elements to it. At some point in it's very late service it went through Küstrin indicated by the '2' marked on the buttplate, I assume this is where it received its replacement bolt.

Paul, unfortunately one of those 'crude' elements is the fact that they stamped the suffix over the last digit of the barrel code. It's Krupp 52x. I think you will find the location of the C/RC under the hardening proof interesting, as well as the C/RC on the buttplate. The buttplate is also marked with the serial number suffix at the top.

Receiver SN: 4928 a
Barrel SN: 4928 a Krupp 52x
Front sight SN: 28
Rear sight SN: 28
Sight Slider SN: 28
Ejector box SN: 28
Trigger Sear SN: 28
Front barrel band SN: 28
Rear barrel band SN: 28
Trigger guard SN: 4928
Trigger guard screws SN: 28
Floor Plate SN: 28
Follower SN: 28
Stock SN: 4928
Handguard SN: 4928
Buttplate SN: 4928
Bayonet lug SN: 28
Bolt body SN: 8785 nn Depot Renumber 4928
Extractor SN: 85
Safety SN: 85
Cocking piece SN: 85
Bolt sleeve SN: 85
Firing pin SN: 85

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Hell yeah awesome Gew98 Sam! Glad to see you're able to get it. Even better we have the data and information on it instead of it disappearing in a long-lost collection somewhere. As well as some great high-quality pictures! Thank you for taking the extra time and work!
 
Man, I could look at this Gewehr all day. Glad you got it and were able to get such good photos. Added to the reference, first 1918 Danzig on there!
 
Thanks guys I really appreciate it.


Wow, very nice! That thing is just as nice as I suspected it might be! Congrats!

Super rifle! Can't wait to get the loewe down!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Hell yeah awesome Gew98 Sam! Glad to see you're able to get it. Even better we have the data and information on it instead of it disappearing in a long-lost collection somewhere. As well as some great high-quality pictures! Thank you for taking the extra time and work!

Man, I could look at this Gewehr all day. Glad you got it and were able to get such good photos. Added to the reference, first 1918 Danzig on there!
 
Excellent presentation of a rather rarely seen rifle, especially in this condition, your photography skills are getting very good!

This rifle was sold by LR back in 2012, I didn't save the text, but I am sure it went for a good price back then. It has long been known any "Imperial" 1918 dated G98 is pretty elusive to find, only Amberg's are common enough to sneak up on; Mauser made more (a lot more) but most were Turked or kept through the Republican era (reworked). Of course we all know this fact, but what isn't as widely known is that while Danzig made a good number of G98's in 1918 (high e-block, roughly the numbers DWM made) few Danzig/18's have been discovered in good condition, needless to say excellent original condition. There are a couple others luckily, all in these early blocks, - which suggests to me that most made after the b-block probably were kept in the east and destroyed. Quite a few are known, relatively, 12 rifles from the c-block to e-block, 8 of them in the e-block alone, all dogs or poorly detailed, of the twelve all but two are property marked or upgraded. Just a little background for the less well-versed collectors to show how rare this rifle is.

Regarding the BC, too bad the last character is obscured, it could be an alphabetic character or numeric, while only one Danzig/18 G98 possesses a similar BC (724/c KR 541) there are numerous Danzig/17's with alphabetic characters at the end of the BC. Still I am glad to have it as LR didn't show this rifle below the stock and although I could see a probable KR, I couldn't use the BC before. We have to accept the lousy techniques Erfurt and Danzig applied to production, their enormous achievement in production came at a cost, which goes a long way to making it tolerable because although this is a common problem, these two makers are also some of the most commonly encountered and often you can "guess" pretty accurately, moreso than with some of the lower production makers.

** The prevalence of the C/RC on this Danzig is pretty common even before 1918, 1916-1917 its just as common, same for Erfurt and Simson, for whatever reason these three had a lot of trouble. Maybe just tough inspectors who followed the rule book more strictly, or perhaps it was worker related (period literature I have read details the difficulties Danzig encountered in the boondocks of East Prussia... far from the industrial heart of Germany, - Ruhr, Saxony, Berlin etc.. it had to be pretty tough enticing the best workers to leave wild/promiscuous and fast paced Berlin or high paying private work in more industrial regions. The arsenals were notorious for lousy pay and having dry spells where workers were laid off due to lack of funding/contracts by the legislature - note the surges certain years, they often correspond to legislative actions/funding, just like today, government is the biggest get rich quick scheme, being able to "print money" out of thin air which is the primary cause for these severe recessions and depressions, - not free enterprise or laissez-faire (or "capitalism" if you want to use the word Marx popularized)
 
Thanks for the great info as always Paul!

Excellent presentation of a rather rarely seen rifle, especially in this condition, your photography skills are getting very good!

This rifle was sold by LR back in 2012, I didn't save the text, but I am sure it went for a good price back then. It has long been known any "Imperial" 1918 dated G98 is pretty elusive to find, only Amberg's are common enough to sneak up on; Mauser made more (a lot more) but most were Turked or kept through the Republican era (reworked). Of course we all know this fact, but what isn't as widely known is that while Danzig made a good number of G98's in 1918 (high e-block, roughly the numbers DWM made) few Danzig/18's have been discovered in good condition, needless to say excellent original condition. There are a couple others luckily, all in these early blocks, - which suggests to me that most made after the b-block probably were kept in the east and destroyed. Quite a few are known, relatively, 12 rifles from the c-block to e-block, 8 of them in the e-block alone, all dogs or poorly detailed, of the twelve all but two are property marked or upgraded. Just a little background for the less well-versed collectors to show how rare this rifle is.

Regarding the BC, too bad the last character is obscured, it could be an alphabetic character or numeric, while only one Danzig/18 G98 possesses a similar BC (724/c KR 541) there are numerous Danzig/17's with alphabetic characters at the end of the BC. Still I am glad to have it as LR didn't show this rifle below the stock and although I could see a probable KR, I couldn't use the BC before. We have to accept the lousy techniques Erfurt and Danzig applied to production, their enormous achievement in production came at a cost, which goes a long way to making it tolerable because although this is a common problem, these two makers are also some of the most commonly encountered and often you can "guess" pretty accurately, moreso than with some of the lower production makers.

** The prevalence of the C/RC on this Danzig is pretty common even before 1918, 1916-1917 its just as common, same for Erfurt and Simson, for whatever reason these three had a lot of trouble. Maybe just tough inspectors who followed the rule book more strictly, or perhaps it was worker related (period literature I have read details the difficulties Danzig encountered in the boondocks of East Prussia... far from the industrial heart of Germany, - Ruhr, Saxony, Berlin etc.. it had to be pretty tough enticing the best workers to leave wild/promiscuous and fast paced Berlin or high paying private work in more industrial regions. The arsenals were notorious for lousy pay and having dry spells where workers were laid off due to lack of funding/contracts by the legislature - note the surges certain years, they often correspond to legislative actions/funding, just like today, government is the biggest get rich quick scheme, being able to "print money" out of thin air which is the primary cause for these severe recessions and depressions, - not free enterprise or laissez-faire (or "capitalism" if you want to use the word Marx popularized)
 
Hell Sam, you knew all that already! You are about as sharp as they come on Imperials... mostly it was for the new guys, hopefully with a little background they will stick around and at least consider Imperials and the Republican eras, while not as sexy as goosestepping down the Champs-Elysées, the rifles do have advantages, scarcer, less stigma (if that matters) and pretty damn interesting with their well defined manufacturers and trademarks present. (and I should add that unlike in 1945, the German Army was never truly humbled in 1918, at least by foreign force of arms, - the German Army was still capable of defending itself in 1918, Germany was defeated, there was no hope of salvaging the war, but the Army didn't fall apart until it came home and the Entente Armies gave it a respectful distance, for good reason, - had the war continued it would have been ugly and Germany was done, but the Army had plenty of reasons to be proud... something not as true in 1945)
 
Thanks Paul I appreciate it, you've been a great mentor that's for sure!

Hell Sam, you knew all that already! You are about as sharp as they come on Imperials... mostly it was for the new guys, hopefully with a little background they will stick around and at least consider Imperials and the Republican eras, while not as sexy as goosestepping down the Champs-Elysées, the rifles do have advantages, scarcer, less stigma (if that matters) and pretty damn interesting with their well defined manufacturers and trademarks present. (and I should add that unlike in 1945, the German Army was never truly humbled in 1918, at least by foreign force of arms, - the German Army was still capable of defending itself in 1918, Germany was defeated, there was no hope of salvaging the war, but the Army didn't fall apart until it came home and the Entente Armies gave it a respectful distance, for good reason, - had the war continued it would have been ugly and Germany was done, but the Army had plenty of reasons to be proud... something not as true in 1945)

Thank you!

Super rifle, thanks for posting. Also thanks Paul for the info, always appreciated!
 
Danzig rifles in general are among the most common. Certain dates and Danzig off standard production are rare or uncommon, some dates seemed to have lower survivability than others. 1907, 1912, and the very early guns are scarce. A Danzig 1918 had low production and low survivability comparative to earlier years which is why they’re scarce.

Very nice! Are the Danzig made rifles rarer/harder to find vs other arsenals that made these?
 
Speaking only of 1918, Mauser made the most, followed by Amberg, Danzig and DWM about the same numbers, though Danzig's seem to come up more often (condition aside), Oberspree made around as many as Danzig and DWM, 30-40k, then came the consortium, followed by Simson which made the fewest.

All "Imperial" 1918 G98's are rare, most that survived show some interwar service, often with a couple countries. Most are dogs at best, - simply put fewer were made, most that were made were destroyed, those that weren't were upgraded or worse (foreign service), the only original rifles are those that came back with returning soldiers. Which weren't many, for one the Germans didn't have a rifle shortage in 1918, they had a glut of rifles and most new production were stored in depots, so fewer had the opportunity to be in a position for a American soldier to acquire.

These stored rifles proved to be a big problem, or rather made a big problem worse, when the revolution came upon Germany these stores often fell into the hands of the governments opponents. The Spartacists and Independent Socialists, as well as the worker and soldier councils (typically the farther from the front a soldier was, the more radicalized he became...) all armed themselves with stores of arms, the Spartacists/communists actually set up headquarters in the Spandau armory in 1919. In disputed areas, like Poland, these new formed states found these stores very handy and many were turned upon Germans (soldier and civilian alike). Naturally, the Freikorps also were armed from these stores, these volunteer units were authorized and sponsored by the SDP government, - they in turn armed the Einwohnerwehr (militias formed to protect states, cities and communities, like the Freikorps, generally from the middleclasses, students, rural or conservative classes, though pro-Republican forces also, - the myths that the Freikorps or Einwohnerwehr were "Vanguards" of "nazism" or proto-nazis is absurd and baseless... )
 
Naturally, the Freikorps also were armed from these stores, these volunteer units were authorized and sponsored by the SDP government, - they in turn armed the Einwohnerwehr

Talking about the Einwohnerwehr.
The murder case of Hinterkaifeck from April 1922 is likely unknown to most of you. There and then all residents of a remote farm were killed. It is assumed that there was a illegal depot for the EWB on the farm.
Back then, Hinterkaifeck was part of the "city" of Wangen. Wangen had less than 300 residents.
Interestingly a gun list for EWB members from there survived in our state archive with 44 official gun owners!
300 people, 44 rifles!

Here you can find the EWB gun list:
https://www.hinterkaifeck.net/wiki/...:_1919_Gewehrliste_Einwohnerwehr_Wangen#Datum

Thanks
 
I found it interesting, while atrocities linked to the Freikorps are widely publicized and even spoken of today, the atrocities of the Spartacists and bolsheviks are rarely mentioned or spoken about in studies, - except in passing and only then to elicit a contrast in scale and scope (reactionaries "overreact" in their vengeance...); the truth of it, if you read period reports and literature based upon those reports, the Spartacists and bolsheviks usually were the instigators, typically shockingly brutal and savage, - the case in Riga where when the Friekorps pushed the bolos out they (bolos) murdered hundreds of women and children before they departed, it was said that it was the women bolos that mutilated the bodies, - the crime of these hostages-victims? They refused to takes sides or support the bolsheviks. Of course the Munich incident where the communists murdered hostages before their impending defeat, causing another "overreaction", however this is the nature of all revolutions and insurgencies, in the end the radicals always take over and typically the first thing they do is murder the academics and "intellectuals" that instigate revolutions. What follows is also natural, culling the herd of the potential counterrevolutionaries...

*** what I actually wanted to reply to was the comment regarding arms to residents, - in the AEF report that details the period between the signing of the armistice to the occupation of the Rhine bridgeheads, basically the following of the German Army and settling into the zones of occupation, the report goes into the reception they encountered, the relief of the Germans in the Coblenz area (what little the Germans had left was looted between the departure of the German Army and the arrival of the AEF and French - they might not have liked the AEF occupation, but of the five possibillties the AEF was the best option... Spartacists, French, Begians or the English... of the Rhineland and Ruhr, they were the most fortunate) and the problems the AEF encountered, the city leaders were told by the central government to cooperate fully, but the American Officers were a little surprised by the numbers of weapons the civilians owned, they said it was more than the numbers a typical American city population would own, and of course the AEF wanted them collected and the citizens were not especially cooperative. I wonder if the AEF considered murdering them, women, children and their dogs, - like the Bolos would have? The only thing worse than a nazi is a bolshevik...

Talking about the Einwohnerwehr.
The murder case of Hinterkaifeck from April 1922 is likely unknown to most of you. There and then all residents of a remote farm were killed. It is assumed that there was a illegal depot for the EWB on the farm.
Back then, Hinterkaifeck was part of the "city" of Wangen. Wangen had less than 300 residents.
Interestingly a gun list for EWB members from there survived in our state archive with 44 official gun owners!
300 people, 44 rifles!

Here you can find the EWB gun list:
https://www.hinterkaifeck.net/wiki/...:_1919_Gewehrliste_Einwohnerwehr_Wangen#Datum

Thanks
 
Talking about the Einwohnerwehr.
The murder case of Hinterkaifeck from April 1922 is likely unknown to most of you. There and then all residents of a remote farm were killed. It is assumed that there was a illegal depot for the EWB on the farm.
Back then, Hinterkaifeck was part of the "city" of Wangen. Wangen had less than 300 residents.
Interestingly a gun list for EWB members from there survived in our state archive with 44 official gun owners!
300 people, 44 rifles!

Here you can find the EWB gun list:
https://www.hinterkaifeck.net/wiki/...:_1919_Gewehrliste_Einwohnerwehr_Wangen#Datum

Thanks

Wolfgang, do you keep track of EWB marked guns? My Amberg 1918 (6507) is an EWB marked rifle.
 
Wolfgang, do you keep track of EWB marked guns? My Amberg 1918 (6507) is an EWB marked rifle.

Thanks!
Have your rifle on file.
EWB, Gl.V. rear sight, receiver in the white. Receiver code: 7M7-0 Under = G (BC- OS 4557). Correct?
Thanks
Wolfgang
 

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