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Thread: BNZ 45 question

  1. #11
    Senior Member flynaked's Avatar
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    The notion of “camp gun” has little merit in relation to any Steyr K98, this is just one of those long standing collector folklores born from a simplistic attribution of markings without sound reasoning or even a basic understanding of the production scheme in this timeframe. The meaning of the circle V7 marking is unknown at this point, but we have solid theories on research based reasoning. It can however be determined what it is NOT based on addition evidence. The simple fact that this marking occurs in 1945 production (on bnz45 proper receivers, and not rejected/left over 1944 units) effectively kills any relation to the SS as the contract for such was already concluded at this point. The same goes for any rune marked parts in 1945 production, the most likely of which will be barrels and sight bases, these are simply left overs from the mass of parts that were continuously built to supply this contract before it’s dissolution, and are only observed on army accepted rifles, because there were no longer any weapons being built directly for the SS. This also proves that the application of rune markings occurred before final assembly therefore discounting any “final” attribution of the marking with the SS. That being said, these markings and references are all in relation to the singular component production occurring at Gusen as that IS what occurred there. These rough finished components were shipped to an outside location for final deburring, fitment of components, barreling/headspacing, stock fitting and final assembly before test firing. This was NOT at a camp and occurred under far different conditions than the component production. If you want to call any product “camp made” because some of its sub components were built in a KL or by a work force supplied by a local KL then you will have a hard time finding any product in this timeframe that isn’t affected by this scenario.

    Unlike other makers who slowly transitioned in regard to stock configuration or that pulled stocks from other sources to further convolute the change over, Steyr had a solid in house production supply of the new KM configuration by late 1944. Of course, exceptions to rules occur so it’s possible, but given the fact that there hasn’t been a single Bnz45 observed in anything except full KM form doesn’t bode well for your rifle’s legitimacy, nor does the lack of e/h, a feature (or lack there of) that has only been observed in the later T block. I once owned 7799q that completely touched on all these points, a fully army accepted rifle with V7 marked bnz45 receiver, rune marked barrel, and laminate KM.

    So you can see the V7 has no relation to this presumed scenario. I believe it is likely a tracking mark for its exact production location, possibly the number of the Lager it was forged at or final machined at. Interestingly among Steyr’s list of Lageplans, one production location is numbered “V7”.

  2. #12
    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    I actually think the V7 marking is an inspection marking for receivers that were out of spec and repaired, as the locations are usually in areas that were trouble areas. I’ve seen bnz44 receivers with V7 markings in 2 or 3 locations on 1 rifle. The Gusen made receivers seem to have been a huge problem to get finished properly, typical of all the other SS run endeavors. Anyway, the Gusen facility was administrated by Steyr and skilled workers were shipped in, camp labor was initially used for menial task and those that could be were trained as time went on.

    I agree, this isn’t a “camp gun” in the way you are thinking. Your basic understanding comes from google and sales pitches on dealer sites. It’s not your fault, it’s been the prevailing theory espoused for 50 years, it was just wrong all this time.


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  3. #13
    Senior Member flynaked's Avatar
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    That’s interesting Mike! One observation like that alone can totally change a theory, I’ve yet to see more than one. Multiple occurrences definitely changes the thinking on part of that, as to the rest of the thought, more on that later

  4. #14
    Senior Member flynaked's Avatar
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    Are we not talking about this turd?

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/818755495

  5. #15
    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    Let me find the photos - I want to say the most I have seen on 1 gun is 3.


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  6. #16
    Senior Member moconfed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynaked View Post
    Are we not talking about this turd?

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/818755495
    That's a peach of a steyer. Yugo wood?
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  7. #17
    RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual heavy_mech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynaked View Post
    Are we not talking about this turd?

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/818755495
    That guy! Joe RunOnSentence... He's picked up the hype and hyperbole baton and is running with it! Oh and tons of just plain wrong info. Must have heard all those stories at the gun show.
    Last edited by heavy_mech; 06-20-2019 at 03:21 PM.
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  8. #18
    ax - hole Warrior1354's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavy_mech View Post
    That guy! Joe RunOnSentence... He's picked up the hype and hyperbole baton and is running with it! Oh and tons of just plain wrong info. Must have heard all those stories at the gun show.
    Or he must be in League with big sweaty Ben from Classic arms!
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  9. #19
    Keeper of the Def's Head M1903A3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfarb View Post
    Let me find the photos - I want to say the most I have seen on 1 gun is 3.


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    Mike I want to say that the non firing proofed SS contract bnz43 that you once owned and that I now have has three “circle V7” markings on it. I’ll find the pics. I enjoy the speculations and ideas about some of these markings, especially SDP, and the “rejection” theory for the V7 certainly does make sense.


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  10. #20
    Senior Member flynaked's Avatar
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    I wonder what the circle M means now, first I have seen of it.

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