Byf45 Zf41 Pickup

Hi all,

Some of you may have seen this on the Trader. The seller was local, so we met up and negotiated a FTF deal. (As a sidebar MPkills is a class act.)

I had the opportunity to take the rifle apart today and wanted to share more detailed pics than the listing had.

The actual rifle is matching, but I don't believe the scope is "the" scope to it. The scope is an original dow and was professionally cleaned by Don Miller, so the optics are crystal clear. The rifle also came with an original sling with no markings I can see.

Low "no letter" block, typical MO features for this SN range. Full kriegsmodell trim. Mix of blued receiver and select parts, the rest are phosphate. Not in the pictures, but the sight base is Elite Diamont subcontracted and the leaf is e/135. Barrel codes are 44L19 and ch Ag. The receiver and barrel both have the MO defective firing proof.

Rifle clearly was picked up after sitting in a field or was in a wet basement-- or some other scenario. There is corrosion/pitting on the receiver bridge, bolt and scope rail and a few spots on the rear sight and front of the barrel. Additionally, there are some old rust spots under the wood. If you look at the barrel channel, the green inspection stamp ran a bit and isn't legible. Despite the exterior, the bore is perfect.

The stock is very dry WGL and has a few delaminations on the buttstock (including one that bisected the WaA135 and a hairline crack at the wrist. Clearly, not a shooter.

Despite the blemishes, thought it was a nice pickup. I have several 1945 rifles, but somehow this is my first byf45 code.

Anyway, thought I'd share.



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Scope pics + misc.

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I've got to ask, since I noticed this in the original FS post, but what is the deal with the engraving on the front rain shield of the scope? Is that legit? Looks strange, don't think I have ever seen one like that before...

pzjgr said:

I've got to ask, since I noticed this in the original FS post, but what is the deal with the engraving on the front rain shield of the scope? Is that legit? Looks strange, don't think I have ever seen one like that before...

Click to expand...

Frankly, I was wondering the same thing. I assumed possibly old repro and pleasant surprise if legit.

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No the writing on the front shield is not original. Post war done.

An identical front rain shield was available on ebay a few months ago. I can't recall the price, but I believe it sold. Here is a photo of the other end.

i like it! if the buyer and seller are anywhere near Frederick, id love to see the rifle. I can show you guys my LSR at the same time if. your interested

Gene

Does this have two barrel codes? ch Ag and 44 L 19?

If so, this would confirm what was speculated, these "L" barrels represent "Luttich" and stands for FN. These was a thread on this subjects several years back.

*** http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?19373-Byf44-Barrel-Markings&highlight=Luttich ***

Loewe said:

Does this have two barrel codes? ch Ag and 44 L 19?

If so, this would confirm what was speculated, these "L" barrels represent "Luttich" and stands for FN. These was a thread on this subjects several years back.

*** http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?19373-Byf44-Barrel-Markings&highlight=Luttich ***

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Yes, that's correct Paul-- I was remiss in listing the second barrel code on top of barrel. It must have been my lack of coffee yesterday.

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Thanks for confirming, pretty rarely seen, yours is the second recorded, though I am sure there are others. (speculation is less speculative when more reveal themselves!)

Very good info about the barrel code! Thanks for posting that up!

I'm assuming the bolt is an Astrawerke unit? Pretty hard to tell with the pitting on the bottom flat.

jbmauser said:

Very good info about the barrel code! Thanks for posting that up!

I'm assuming the bolt is an Astrawerke unit? Pretty hard to tell with the pitting on the bottom flat.

Click to expand...

Im fairly certain the "1" is there but it's a little obscured. I can't make out any markings aside from that. I've seen Astra bolts on other byf45s in this range, so that likely is the case.

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The flat looks Astrawerke and as you said, pretty common throughout late 44 until the end.

Loewe said:

..two barrel codes? ch Ag and 44 L 19?

If so, this would confirm what was speculated, these "L" barrels represent "Luttich" and stands for FN.

Click to expand...

If I'm following the 2 threads correctly the current theory is FN Herstal finished supplied by a Liège (Lüttich) steel provider. How about John Cockerill? 200 years in defense manufacturing and just over 10km south of FN proper sharing sidings from a common main rail line. Maybe 1944, Lüttich, batch or lot #19? Was Seraing considered a part of Lüttich by the Germans at the time? I suppose it could have been another mill in the city proper long since gone? Information for factories pre-deindustrialization is not so easy, at least in the US.

I seriously doubt it, Cockerill (home and land purchased in 1817 for $9000 US from the King - by an Englishman) was one of the largest steel mills on the continent, it was nothing less that enormous and similar to Krupp in Germany or Skoda in Bohemia. Though I believe state owned well before the Germans meandered in the place in 1940. Prior to the war (WWI) they were already making advanced weaponry including cannons/artillery.

FN was quite independent I believe, formerly owned by Loewe/DWM due to a patent infringement, the Belgians looted the property (from Loewe) after WWI; when the Germans sauntered back in in 1940 the German authorities restored DWM claims on the property. There is no reason to believe Cockerill was included, that would have been an enormous gift! Most probably Krupp was given oversight, or some other large German steel conglomerate, - Germany possessed nearly as many large steel operations as the US, even after the consolidations and mergers throughout the 1930's (many German firms were struggling, US steel firms were involved in the modernization and consolidations, - both in funding and rationalizations... this was long before the psycho nazis came to power... mid 1920's)

Anyway, Cockerill was a large operation that undoubtedly supplied blanks to FN, but they were also a arms making firm themselves, much like Krupp. To give Cockerill to FN (or DWM) would be giving the cat to the mouse, - and while nazis are leftists and highly hostile to capitalism and individualism, they were also some of the greediest son of bitches in Europe, - they were like the old American mob, a Godfather, Capos, bosses and underbosses, loot like from Cockerill would sold to the highest bidder, not literally, the actual title would have been held by the state, probably under the Reichswerke (Capo Göring front), later probably directly under the Ministry of Armaments, but could have been held under trust of some other large state owned institution, like Rheinmetall. Typically profitable concerns, where money could be siphoned off, especially for hard currencies like Swiss Francs (the only real money in the world during WWII, backed by gold, - in real terms, not like "theoretically" as in the US) were peddled to firms like Krupp (probably directed oversight at Cockerill regardless of where it went), but something this big probably went to Göring and his Reichswerke (anything steel or mining usually went).

So far Cockerill's trademark, a rooster or anything like it hasn't been seen on a FN barrel, the various trademarks you do see have so far defied association (might be we modern apes can't appreciate the symbolism or artistry displayed 80 years ago). There were literally dozens or even hundreds of small steel operations throughout western Europe, in the 1920's-30's German, French, Belgium and Luxembourg firms formed cartels, I have seen lists of these firms, but nothing that identifies firms to trademarks, further trademarks can vary over short periods, so its difficult to make much progress with the "who" supplied FN raw forgings. I have spent many hours trying... you can find some clues in period literature, especially engineering journals, like Zeitschrift des Vereines Deutscher Ingenieure, several others, but I only have a few volumes of such magazines, - got some bad a$$ info and pictures regarding Ludwig Loewe from them, but they are hard to find outside of New England.

heavy_mech said:

How about John Cockerill? 200 years in defense manufacturing and just over 10km south of FN proper sharing sidings from a common main rail line. Maybe 1944, Lüttich, batch or lot #19? Was Seraing considered a part of Lüttich by the Germans at the time? I suppose it could have been another mill in the city proper long since gone? Information for factories pre-deindustrialization is not so easy, at least in the US.

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Don just worked on my scope and is mailing it back. He was recommended on here. Glad to see its crystal clear because mine was getting very difficult to see through. Now I cant wait to get it back!