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Help with K98k Portugal Identification

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darthwolle

Member
Hi I am new here and have a question regardig this K98k 1941 Portugal.
The seller states that this K98 was not delivered to portugal because of usage in the WH.

Could the stamp H1328 be an indication for that story? The same stamp with number is on the downside of the shaft.

huelse.jpg

1941.jpg
k98.jpg
schaft.jpg
schaft2.jpg
 
If I remember correctly, the Portugese cartouche on the stock means that it was accepted by Portugal. But someone will be around with more information I'm sure.
 
They all received the stock cartouche. Its presence does not mean the rifle stayed in Germany. Sellers frequently invent reasons why their wares are special and more valuable.
 
H1328 is the original serial number of the rifle. The stamps above that were not applied by Mauser Oberndorf, but sometime later. These may be post war proof markings.

Not sure what you mean by "the downside of the shaft".

This rifle's metal has been refinished. The original finish was a high quality blue, quite glossy on the receiver ring.

The Portuguese crest on the stock was factory applied. Though the stock stamp says 1941, these rifles were likely assembled in 1942. Many were delivered to Portugal and later sold off. Portuguese contract rifles were diverted for German use, as needed. These diverted rifles had no special markings that differentiate them from other Portuguese 98Ks, and were simply Portuguese contract rifles in German service. Most of these were later lost in the east, and show up today as Russian capture rifles. Not sure whether this one is an RC rifle or not.

My avatar is the WaA stamp on the stock of my unissued Portuguese 98K, G19383, which was imported into the US from Portugal in the early 1960s. It also has a walnut stock.
 
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tsmgguy said:
H1328 is the original serial number of the rifle. The stamps above that were not applied by Mauser Oberndorf, but sometime later. These may be post war proof markings.

Not sure what you mean by "the downside of the shaft".
Click to expand...
Thx for your answer. You wrote H1328 ist the original serial number... but not by Mauser. So what kind of original serial number if not by Mauser?! I do not understand ;-)

So downside the shaft... I mean the lower edge of the gun shaft... see the example pic! Unbenannt.PNG
 
H1328 is the original serial number applied by Mauser Oberndorf. The markings above the Nazi firing proof on the left of the receiver ring are postwar proofs of some kind.
 
Pisgah said:
H1328 is the original serial number applied by Mauser Oberndorf. The markings above the Nazi firing proof on the left of the receiver ring are postwar proofs of some kind.
Click to expand...


Ok, so I understand. The H1328 ist original by Mauser Oberndorf. The markings above are postwar. Yes, this could be because the rifle was proofed 1980 for shooting again.

Thank you.

The interesting question ist, was this rifle in Portugal?
 
Post some good photos of the chamber end of the muzzle where the barrel screws into the receiver.
 
darthwolle said:
Ok, so I understand. The H1328 ist original by Mauser Oberndorf. The markings above are postwar. Yes, this could be because the rifle was proofed 1980 for shooting again.

Thank you.

The interesting question ist, was this rifle in Portugal?
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I think this M937-B was in Portugal, in 1979/1980 a lot of these rifles was imported to Germany.
 
Stephan98k said:
I think this M937-B was in Portugal, in 1979/1980 a lot of these rifles was imported to Germany.
Click to expand...

Yes. Could be nur I read about that a many of 10000s are held by the wehrmacht before delivery. And they were stamped with H, L or M. For Heer, Luftwaffe or Marine.

So this K98 has such a H.

That is the question?!
 
darthwolle said:
Yes. Could be nur I read about that a many of 10000s are held by the wehrmacht before delivery. And they were stamped with H, L or M. For Heer, Luftwaffe or Marine.

So this K98 has such a H.

That is the question?!
Click to expand...

The underside of the handguard and the stock barrel channel should have the rifle's original serial number. The stock of Portuguese contract rifles were not produced with an H, L, or M stamp under the WaA135 acceptance adler. See my avatar. The letter was not added on rifles diverted to German service.
 
tsmgguy said:
The underside of the handguard and the stock barrel channel should have the rifle's original serial number. The stock of Portuguese contract rifles were not produced with an H, L, or M stamp under the WaA135 acceptance adler. See my avatar. The letter was not added on rifles diverted to German service.
Click to expand...

So I try to repeat. I am a bit confused:


1. The 1328 is the rifles orginial serial number from Mauser?

2. The H stamp stands for "Heer"? Portugese rifles were not produced with H. For info the underside of handguard and stock barrel is the same number: H 1328
This rifle was not diverted to German Service? Confusing because why, for what the "H" stamp?

Thx.
 
darthwolle said:
So I try to repeat. I am a bit confused:


1. The 1328 is the rifles orginial serial number from Mauser?

2. The H stamp stands for "Heer"? Portugese rifles were not produced with H. For info the underside of handguard and stock barrel is the same number: H 1328
This rifle was not diverted to German Service? Confusing because why, for what the "H" stamp?

Thx.
Click to expand...

1. The serial number is "H1328", the "H" in front of the number is part of the serial number. The rifles got assembled in blocks with 10,000 rifles, your rifle is number 1328 in the "H" block. You can find M937-B in "F", "G" and "H" block.

2. Like explained before, the "H" is part of the serial number.

The service acceptance "H" would be on the right side of the stock between the disc and "E/WaA135" stock acceptance stamp. On your stock is no "H" service acceptance, because only early production M937-B are marked with an "Heer" service acceptance. In the serial number range of your rifle they just used the "E/WaA135" stock acceptance stamp.
 
Stephan98k said:
1. The serial number is "H1328", the "H" in front of the number is part of the serial number. The rifles got assembled in blocks with 10,000 rifles, your rifle is number 1328 in the "H" block. You can find M937-B in "F", "G" and "H" block.

2. Like explained before, the "H" is part of the serial number.

The service acceptance "H" would be on the right side of the stock between the disc and "E/WaA135" stock acceptance stamp. On your stock is no "H" service acceptance, because only early production M937-B are marked with an "Heer" service acceptance. In the serial number range of your rifle they just used the "E/WaA135" stock acceptance stamp.
Click to expand...

Ok I understand. The H is part of the serial number. And this is a late production because not marked for service acceptance.

But what does the Eagle stamp means? So does this mean that it was proofed (Beschussstempel) for the WH?
 
darthwolle said:
Ok I understand. The H is part of the serial number. And this is a late production because not marked for service acceptance.

But what does the Eagle stamp means? So does this mean that it was proofed (Beschussstempel) for the WH?
Click to expand...

Every Portuguese contract Kar.98k received that firing proof. The only way to be certain that a Portuguese contract rifle was used by the German military is if:

1) it is in Russian capture form.
2) it was Norwegian rebuilt or modified.
3) it has German wartime replacement parts and/or signs that it was rebuilt or repaired by the German military wartime.
4) it has legitimate capture/bringback paperwork .

I am in the U.S. Many of our Portuguese contract rifles have import markings. That normally means that the rifle went to Portugal and did not stay in Germany. On the other hand, a Portuguese contract rifle without the import marking is not necessarily a GI bringback from the war either. This is because that rifle could be a postwar import before there was a law mandating that the rifle be marked or, more likely, that rifle could have been smuggled to the U.S. from Canada to take advantage of higher selling prices here. Occasionally one will see a Portuguese contract rifle that looks as if it could have seen use and lacks the import marking. That suggests it might have stayed in Germany and come back to the U.S. as a serviceman's bringback, but it is not a guarantee. I asked for a photograph (or photographs) of the back of the barrel to see if it has a replacement barrel. A "0,2" marking at the back of the barrel would signify a replacement barrel and that would be strong evidence that the rifle stayed in Germany, particularly if it was numbered to match the rifle. Unfortunately, there is no marking (or lack of a marking) on a Portuguese contract rifle that shows whether the rifle stayed in Germany or not.
 
Very well stated!! I have seen at least two RC rifles with the Portuguese crest and likely this is the most common Wehrmacht variation found. The rifle in question IMHO likely has no German/Nazi connection other than where it was made/proofs/contract.

Pisgah said:
Every Portuguese contract Kar.98k received that firing proof. The only way to be certain that a Portuguese contract rifle was used by the German military is if:

1) it is in Russian capture form.
2) it was Norwegian rebuilt or modified.
3) it has German wartime replacement parts and/or signs that it was rebuilt or repaired by the German military wartime.
4) it has legitimate capture/bringback paperwork .

I am in the U.S. Many of our Portuguese contract rifles have import markings. That normally means that the rifle went to Portugal and did not stay in Germany. On the other hand, a Portuguese contract rifle without the import marking is not necessarily a GI bringback from the war either. This is because that rifle could be a postwar import before there was a law mandating that the rifle be marked or, more likely, that rifle could have been smuggled to the U.S. from Canada to take advantage of higher selling prices here. Occasionally one will see a Portuguese contract rifle that looks as if it could have seen use and lacks the import marking. That suggests it might have stayed in Germany and come back to the U.S. as a serviceman's bringback, but it is not a guarantee. I asked for a photograph (or photographs) of the back of the barrel to see if it has a replacement barrel. A "0,2" marking at the back of the barrel would signify a replacement barrel and that would be strong evidence that the rifle stayed in Germany, particularly if it was numbered to match the rifle. Unfortunately, there is no marking (or lack of a marking) on a Portuguese contract rifle that shows whether the rifle stayed in Germany or not.
Click to expand...
 
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