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Thread: Jon Speed & His 1906 Experimental Magazine

  1. #1
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Default Jon Speed & His 1906 Experimental Magazine

    Jon Speed and I were discussing sharing a few pictures on the K98k forum, and he suggested I do so on gunboards as well. In 2014 and 2015 Jon shared an enormous number of pictures and documents with me, mostly as they relate to Loewe and Paul Mauser, but a great deal in-between. Rather than speaking for or "interpret" Jon Speed, I will excerpt some of his comments regarding this pro-type and its extended magazine. What follows are Jon's words, extracted from a lengthy email exchange:

    "Next Pic shows Prototype Mauser Extended magazine 25 rounds first Used in 1906 Prototype Mauser self-loading rifle and now being tested in G 98 dated 1906, Magazine was ok for self loader but to expensive for the G 98. In WW1 a much cheaper magazine was made up and used extensively. I have Mauser Photos of this being tested on Oberndorf G 98."

    "I will have some more images for you tomorrow. I am sure some such examples survived and may have been taken by French after WW2. Many were returned to Germany as a show of friendship in 1967-70 period but the Mauser firm sold off hundreds to dealers and gave other as gifts without a clue as to what they might have represented, Mauser gave about 80 rifles to Oberndorf New Museum in 1970 period. Lockhoven managed to get photos of many French Return examples before they were dispersed and I have hundreds of these images on large format BXW negatives Lockhoven used some of which you have seen in Volume 3 and 1. More will come on Volume 2 etc. Regards, Jon"

    "G98 test bed for new large capacity magazine and trigger guard for this. G98 has a SN 2 on left side of receiver, left wall is blank. During WW1 trench war was main battle point so consideration was made for such magazines etc.
    Left view of G 98 with the standard cheap metal magazine used in WW!. G 98 is WFM 1915 example SN 874. What is also cool is the rear sight has been set up for the pre-war Patented Removable sight bed unit so this looks to me like and example that was kept for reference by Mauser firm. Would be great to know when this was FIRST tested since we know Mauser provided several hundred thousand of these to the industry from 1920-35 period etc."
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    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Default Jon Speed Comments August 4th, 2019

    These comments are what spurred this thread, the earlier comments (post #1) were from 2015. I thought Jon would like to share these thoughts also, seeing as they are the impetus for sharing these:

    Paul, I went through some of my Glass plate images for some magazine talks and have 2 of my Favorite Paul Mauser Designed magazines for the G 98k. Rifle shown is pre 1903 with 1906 Patented magazine. This magazine Paul first used on his new self loading rifle and made for uses on G 98. What is COOL I own from Paul's Collection his Patent example that stayed in his collection until French took it. I got this from an old French General who obtained many Mauser Museum examples etc. The French General did not know what this went to which was in fact for self loading rifle. This mag comes off with push of button on back of floor plate housing much like normal 98 floor plate etc. .Regards, Jon

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    The third picture is kind of interesting. Especially if that rifle is dated 1906 with rear sight starting at 200 meter to 2000 meter. Wasn't the 200m sight dropped by 1906? Is the rifle also experimental? Fantastic photos by the way.

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    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    The pictures did come out well here, originally they were 3-4 MB each, far to large for normal forums. Here I was able to load them without resizing and the forum did the resizing, - at Gunboards I had a hell of a time getting them to load even after resizing. Here they came out much better.

    Regarding the RS, perhaps it is due to its commercial nature, the rifle seems to have no military acceptance and therefore experimental. Commercial rifles often exhibit non-standard configurations. Jon Speed would be able to better answer, and he might, - if he has thoughts on the matter I will post his comments. Good observation too, I hadn't really noticed the RS, I was focused on the magazine.

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    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Personally, I feel the fourth picture the most interesting, and also the ones with the typical sheet metal trench mags. The detail is excellent and RS is especially interesting. I really should review Jon Speed's books, his commercial rifle volumes and Mauser Archive, before posting these, perhaps doing so would have given me a better grasp of the pictures and their context.

    Hopefully Jon will have something to say regarding all these pictures. These pictures are actually from 2015, the ones he sent last week were duplicates from 2015. Because he sent more pictures back then, I chose to use that batch, the rifles here are more diverse and really need some clarity to place them in proper context. This isn't Jon's fault, but my email isn't quite good enough to have sent each 4-5 mb picture for a individual description... probably would have taken all day.

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    Excellent post and pics, thanks.

    G2

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    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Default Jon Speed Responds to Recent Question

    Paul, to respond to guy with questions about g 98 with new 1906 patented magazine. The rifle itself is just older inventory or reference example used to show new mag so no big deal on 200 meter sight from pre1903 period. All the photos are from Mauser firm glass plate images so of super high quality etc. Rifle in test bed with sn 2 was made up to test various magazine funtion.etc.jon

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    While I had been following this thread and having really enjoyed the pictures I wanted to express my big thanks to Jon for providing these pictures. Unfortunately I can't add much to what he posted since he is sharing his knowledge and there is not much to be discussed about, at least not from my side. I hope this isn't misinterpreted as lack of interest and Jon and Paul keep posting such pictures since I assume most others here suffer from the same problem as I do.

    As a final side note, it is funny that even back then Mauser was able to do better pictures than many do with nowadays technology and possibilities.

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    Very few collectors can "add" to what Jon Speed understands or shares with us, most of the great collectors and researchers are gone, Jon knew most of the very best, Hans Lockhoven, Walter Schmid, - the very best have always been German collectors as there is no substitute to a thorough understanding of German and digging through archives. Compiling "trends" and "consuming" old books, trade journals and literature (period current events and analysis - back then they had incredibly well written weeklies by true academics, some truly polymathic, not the conceited and corrupt sentimentalists we have today in media and "journalism", who are incapable of objectivity...) can only take us so far. I consider Jon Speed the last great researcher and collector, certainly the last American, - and there is no one around who can carry on where he leaves off.. Stephan I think has the potential to be one of the very best, marrying the mundane work (trends) with actual archival work and period literature (if you are good enough at the latter you can forgo the former, but Stephan seem to do both well...)

    Anyway, most of the time, my emails with Jon are one way affairs, Jon educates and I marvel and ask questions or express admiration in some way... quite one sided exchange unless we delve into the political or historical contexts... so don't feel alone when you have little to contribute!

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    Thanks for taking the time to post this Paul, incredible to see and read to say the least

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