Third Party Press

$25,000 s/147k

Yes I remember it. I just posted a thread on gunboards about it. Let's see on they take it.

If you have the original pics you should add them because Mosin collectors will deny any fakery took place. "No one fakes Mosins" according to experts at gunboards.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Who is buying these things at these prices? Seriously. It's none of us. There were a few guys guzzling the forum Koolaid at WAF, driving up the camouflage helmet market such that prices of $2500+ were being regularly paid for "exotic freshies," i.e., circus clown looking humpjob fantasy art lids that a decent reenactor would laugh at. Then, these guys, forum attack lemmings who smeared and insulted people like me who were trying to help them (most of us were banned), probably figured out their stooge status and bailed out, dumping their klown lid collections, taking big hits, and moving on. Query, if your "exotic freshie" is so roundly wonderful and valuable, why is it that none of the forum people who told you that are interested in buying them? Now that market is far different, particularly so after the Great Shampain Ruin Fraud. Are there a small group of senseless double secret K98k guys with deep pockets? This is not ultimately good for the hobby because regular people do internet searches and when you tell them their K98k is worth $2000 and they see it "sold" for $4500 they think you're lying to them. New guys see this and don't want to get involved in such an expensive hobby.

The good news is that at least there is this site and us (i.e., all of us, the site membership). While we do spend time helping save people from themselves, the more senseless are beyond saving. They are the ones who will shriek about K98k collecting being full of fraud. These people are like daft morons who sit in a large fire ant pile on a 100 F summer day shrieking about getting stung by fire ants and they won't get up off of it. As for MN collecting, they may be too far gone at this point as now they are likely comparing fakes to fakes. As Capt. noted, that's a result of things like the supermoderator there, USMCSean, castigating me for posting the latest general of fake SA stamps because "you already posted a couple years ago that there were fake SA stamps." (but these were the newest generation of stamps). Is it better to focus on giving out "infractions" to forum people you don't like than worrying about humped bolts and fake SA stamps? :googlie

Obviously, these are all just my personal opinions......
 
Last edited:
Who is buying these things at these prices? Seriously. It's none of us...
..Are there a small group of senseless double secret K98k guys with deep pockets?

I thought about this quite a bit and came back to the interactions with StooperIke. Most likely every or nearly every member here would offer that NO WAY is that a 25k rifle only to have that person say "none of those guys know what I have". Could one of us really convince themselves that they were smart for grabbing that gem at 25k before someone else got it? I find it hard to believe but also saw in writing "not selling it at ANY price". Really? I've never gotten to interact with anyone who dropped really big money of one of these so I can only imagine how that might go.
 
Mosin collecting is too far gone, and there is no fixing it, because even the younger honest collectors refuse to admit there is a problem. It is at the point where fakes are being compared to fakes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I thought about this quite a bit and came back to the interactions with StooperIke. Most likely every or nearly every member here would offer that NO WAY is that a 25k rifle only to have that person say "none of those guys know what I have". Could one of us really convince themselves that they were smart for grabbing that gem at 25k before someone else got it? I find it hard to believe but also saw in writing "not selling it at ANY price". Really? I've never gotten to interact with anyone who dropped really big money of one of these so I can only imagine how that might go.

Who wrote not selling at any price? Personally I think the sale is bogus. If it is legit it is an "investor" not a collector who bought it, or a new collector with more money than knowledge.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
It's a shocking price tag - while I wish they were worth that (I have some of them) they just aren't. If you are rich though, and impatient, then you just throw money at the desire and get what you want. Unfortunately, what usually happens is you get taken to the cleaners, but people that buy from him are not our peers, they have nothing in common with collectors like us. We struggle to pay for the next rifle, sometimes we owe more people than we can pay, we sell stuff we wanted to keep to buy other things we want to keep. We treasure each purchase because it cost so much (not just money), we make friends who scout for us and pick for us. We hang out on forums, exchange info. Then dealers buy rifles at full retail using the info that we put in books, then relist them on their sites at double the price they paid.

You know what? We as collectors are the ones that pay the price, because we lose out on the opportunity to get something cool. That is why Bruce is upset, another rifle that could go to a real collector is going to a purchaser or accumulator (although I doubt this one will ever sell, at least if he holds true to his "no negotiation" tactic to sell it).


Extremely well said Mike. That is reality for most of us.
 
Who wrote not selling at any price? Personally I think the sale is bogus.

That was Ike when it was suggested he was trying to both validate and create a market/price point for his gem of an SS conversion. I agree not just with this particular case but more and more these ridiculous 'sales' (3, 5 or 20 times above retail) are a ploy to try and create an artificially high price point. This scheme has been pointed out before by several members here. And I also think it's bad for the hobby.
 
That was Ike when it was suggested he was trying to both validate and create a market/price point for his gem of an SS conversion. I agree not just with this particular case but more and more these ridiculous 'sales' (3, 5 or 20 times above retail) are a ploy to try and create an artificially high price point. This scheme has been pointed out before by several members here. And I also think it's bad for the hobby.

Ike lol. If nothing else he is entertaining


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Most people believe that an advertised price is what something is worth. Market price is set by the intersection of the supply/demand curve, or in the case of things like this, the aggregated average of selling price points for similar things. This rifle was advertised for $25,000. Did it sell for that? However, now the same people who believe that an advertised price is what something is worth will think that their _______ is worth that advertised price. If market manipulation takes place by playing awkshun and advertising games it ultimately harms the market because you don't have willing buyers and willing sellers trading based upon valid information, or trading at all.

Some people are such dumba$$es that you can't even explain such logic to them. They think you are lying because if they saw an actual advertisement from a seller, that must be true. Then, they wander off under that ignorance fueled delusion until several months later they end up selling their _______ to someone else for less than what you would have paid them. What I would do (because we usually had one of the first tables) at the big funshows was to tell them to walk it around, get their best price, and come to me last as I would pay them more. And no, I'm not going to be your stalking horse bid to walk it around and sell it to the guy who offers you $10 more so you can get a free show hot dog and medium Pepsi (query: how is it that the show concession stand sells a large drank and a medium drank, yet they have no small?). This is just my experience from setting up at big shows for about 20+ years.
 
Last edited:
Price manipulation game certainly happens. RGuns is good at it. Sell on GunBroker at jacked up prices via his shills. Then same firearm is for sale on the website after it supposedly sold, but at a lower price than it "sold" for. Doesn't sell then back to GunBroker where it may not reach the original price, but is still above market value. He set his own valuation.

On a smaller scale a certain female Mosin collector would run a similar game. List on forum but without pics. Wait 24hrs. Mark sold. Go to Facebook and sell to those with zero knowledge, but they can see in a Google search that a similar Cossack rifle sold for $4k so they think $3k is a deal. When she had to bail at the end she didn't get $1k on Gunbroker for most of those "rare" Cossacks.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
Most people believe that an advertised price is what something is worth. Market price is set by the intersection of the supply/demand curve, or in the case of things like this, the aggregated average of price points for similar things. This rifle was advertised for $25,000. Did it sell for that? However, now the same people who believe that an advertised price is what something is worth will think that their _______ is worth that advertised price. If market manipulation takes place by playing awkshun and advertising games it ultimately harms the market because you don't have willing buyers and willing sellers trading based upon valid information, or trading at all.

Some people are such dumba$$es that you can't even explain such logic to them. They think you are lying because if they saw an actual advertisement from a seller, that must be true. Then, they wander off under that ignorance fueled delusion until several months later they end up selling their _______ to someone else for less than what you would have paid them. What I would do (because we usually had one of the first tables) was to tell them to walk it around, get their best price, and come to me last as I would pay them more. And no, I'm not going to be your stalking horse bid to walk it around and sell it to the guy who offers you $10 more so you can get a free show hot dog and medium Pepsi (query: how is it that the show concession stand sells a large drank and a medium drank, yet they have no small?). This is just my experience from setting up at big shows for about 20+ years.


I guess $25,000.00 is nothing to some people, but how do you exhibit such a bargain, without others questioning your sanity ???????
 
Just out of curiosity what would be the estimated number known similar to the $25k rifle?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
No need to repeat so many good points. The best and most troubling are: 1) Sellers will look online and see ridiculous prices and go from there; 2) The "hobby" will cease being a hobby as we know it, due to prices for good stuff.

However, consider this: Although in the 1980's I bought "top dollar" M1 carbines for $300, 1903 and 1903A3 Springfields for less than $200, any M1 Garand for $550, 1930's matching K98k for $350, etc. etc. However, there was no internet and no collector books until the late 1980's (Canfield's Garand and Carnbine book). All I was able to do was rely on opinions of older collectors, look at gun shows, pawn shops, and classified ads. I still was basically clueless and limited to a small geographic area (it was hard for me to find any German Mausers back then). If I had the information and knowledge that is available today, and the internet for buying, I would have had a whole bunch of different and better stuff, probably. The internet greatly increases the stuff available for purchase, and the books of today (and websites) provide much greater knowledge.

So, perhaps 20-30 years from now, people may look back and say the best time to collect was during the years 2000-2020--the era of vast data and superior reference material for collecting guns and the ability to look at many guns all over the country and legally buy them and have them shipped to you.

Just a thought.

Jack
 
No need to repeat so many good points. The best and most troubling are: 1) Sellers will look online and see ridiculous prices and go from there; 2) The "hobby" will cease being a hobby as we know it, due to prices for good stuff.

However, consider this: Although in the 1980's I bought "top dollar" M1 carbines for $300, 1903 and 1903A3 Springfields for less than $200, any M1 Garand for $550, 1930's matching K98k for $350, etc. etc. However, there was no internet and no collector books until the late 1980's (Canfield's Garand and Carnbine book). All I was able to do was rely on opinions of older collectors, look at gun shows, pawn shops, and classified ads. I still was basically clueless and limited to a small geographic area (it was hard for me to find any German Mausers back then). If I had the information and knowledge that is available today, and the internet for buying, I would have had a whole bunch of different and better stuff, probably. The internet greatly increases the stuff available for purchase, and the books of today (and websites) provide much greater knowledge.

So, perhaps 20-30 years from now, people may look back and say the best time to collect was during the years 2000-2020--the era of vast data and superior reference material for collecting guns and the ability to look at many guns all over the country and legally buy them and have them shipped to you.

Just a thought.

Jack

It’s an interesting observation.
Collecting back then was work. We had to beat the bushes, chase down vets, explore every show, subscribe to “Shotgun News” etc, Military Rifle Journal, Karabiner Collector’s Network, Banzai, NAPCA..., a library was an integral part of your collection.
Technology changes all that. It “leveled” the playing field. Depending upon where you lived- prices fluctuated. If you were fortunate enough to live in an area that had lots of retirees or in a military town...stuff was plentiful. Living somewhere else- maybe not so good. You may have been willing to pay a little more for say- an all matching 98k.
But the internet changed all that. Once some joker paid $700 for an all matching 98k- then that was what they all became priced. It took a few years but it happened.
I’m not knocking the Internet- it is what it is. It’s just different now.
In some ways the old way was more fun. You felt like a detective when you tracked the particular variation you were after down. Now it seems that it isn’t so hard to find what you want. Type in a couple of searches, dig through a few dealers websites, monitor a couple of online auctions and you got it. Makes things easier I must say.
Also the information is shared so much quicker. Back then you used to have to write a letter to someone- now a text or email.
I’m just glad I still have an interest and can pick up a few pieces now and then. It’s a great hobby.
 
Most people believe that an advertised price is what something is worth. Market price is set by the intersection of the supply/demand curve, or in the case of things like this, the aggregated average of selling price points for similar things. This rifle was advertised for $25,000. Did it sell for that? However, now the same people who believe that an advertised price is what something is worth will think that their _______ is worth that advertised price. If market manipulation takes place by playing awkshun and advertising games it ultimately harms the market because you don't have willing buyers and willing sellers trading based upon valid information, or trading at all.

Some people are such dumba$$es that you can't even explain such logic to them. They think you are lying because if they saw an actual advertisement from a seller, that must be true. Then, they wander off under that ignorance fueled delusion until several months later they end up selling their _______ to someone else for less than what you would have paid them. What I would do (because we usually had one of the first tables) at the big funshows was to tell them to walk it around, get their best price, and come to me last as I would pay them more. And no, I'm not going to be your stalking horse bid to walk it around and sell it to the guy who offers you $10 more so you can get a free show hot dog and medium Pepsi (query: how is it that the show concession stand sells a large drank and a medium drank, yet they have no small?). This is just my experience from setting up at big shows for about 20+ years.


Ham- to your point- There is a fellow here in my area that sets up at all the shows- He’s got an old Smith and Wesson Military and Police revolver that he’s been carrying around for at least a year or two- And he has a printed description of one of Pre-98’s M&P’s that “sold” for some ridiculous amount of dough in the case with it- He is convinced that it is worth that kind of money and he is quick to reference the Pre-98 sale reference.
It’s a nice revolver but it cannot be purchased because he’s convinced he can get that “same” kind of money. No one is going to pay a coupe of thousand dollars for a M&P.
 
So, perhaps 20-30 years from now, people may look back and say the best time to collect was during the years 2000-2020--the era of vast data and superior reference material for collecting guns and the ability to look at many guns all over the country and legally buy them and have them shipped to you.

Just a thought.

Jack

Ive said this very thing, this is the golden age of collecting 98k’s (anything WW2). Vets families that have no memory of grandpa selling junk they got from the estate. There really is a lot of stuff available out there if you find a method that works, much of it has never been in collections. I actually prefer stuff like that as the 80’s were hard on 98k’s that are in older collections. Blonde stocks were all the rage and stripper and wood bleach was a staple.....sure prices are Hugh but you can at least find honest guns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ham- to your point- There is a fellow here in my area that sets up at all the shows- He’s got an old Smith and Wesson Military and Police revolver that he’s been carrying around for at least a year or two- And he has a printed description of one of Pre-98’s M&P’s that “sold” for some ridiculous amount of dough in the case with it- He is convinced that it is worth that kind of money and he is quick to reference the Pre-98 sale reference.
It’s a nice revolver but it cannot be purchased because he’s convinced he can get that “same” kind of money. No one is going to pay a coupe of thousand dollars for a M&P.

Yep. There you go. Or, "I'll just put it on Gunbonker auction, I saw one on here sell for $3,500 so why should I sell it to you for $2,100?"
 
It’s an interesting observation.
Collecting back then was work. We had to beat the bushes, chase down vets, explore every show, subscribe to “Shotgun News” etc, Military Rifle Journal, Karabiner Collector’s Network, Banzai, NAPCA..., a library was an integral part of your collection.
Technology changes all that. It “leveled” the playing field. Depending upon where you lived- prices fluctuated. If you were fortunate enough to live in an area that had lots of retirees or in a military town...stuff was plentiful. Living somewhere else- maybe not so good. You may have been willing to pay a little more for say- an all matching 98k.
But the internet changed all that. Once some joker paid $700 for an all matching 98k- then that was what they all became priced. It took a few years but it happened.
I’m not knocking the Internet- it is what it is. It’s just different now.
In some ways the old way was more fun. You felt like a detective when you tracked the particular variation you were after down. Now it seems that it isn’t so hard to find what you want. Type in a couple of searches, dig through a few dealers websites, monitor a couple of online auctions and you got it. Makes things easier I must say.
Also the information is shared so much quicker. Back then you used to have to write a letter to someone- now a text or email.
I’m just glad I still have an interest and can pick up a few pieces now and then. It’s a great hobby.

All of this. I got my stuff through SGN, MRJ, KCN, Banzai, and Amici. We were K98k poor down South. All the guys in OH / PA / KY and such seemed to have them all ;) We had a good bit of Jap. stuff down here. All the K98ks got chopped up for deer rifles. We had more G/K.43s down here than K98ks for some reason. You had to do the big shows to hit good licks. I remember being at David Cook's Dallas Militaria Collector's show and laughing about a $700 42 1940 e/L rifle with sling. It was extremely nice, but I said no one would ever pay that for a K98k, that when they got to a grand I was out and would just collect Enfields and Carcanos ;)
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top