Danzig 1911 double date

As the adage goes, buy the rifle, not the story, but sometimes the rifle IS the story. I have tried to piece together this rifle’s story and welcome corrections as i am far from an expert. Here’s a Danzig Kar98A made in 1911 that I purchased in the late 1970’s, likely heavily used during WW1, presumably badly damaged and sent to Depot 3, Spandau, refurbished with a new later style stock, replaced front band and other small parts, new barrel, replacement bolt, and parts renumbered to match as needed. In 1920 the rifle is in Government hands and is so marked with the 1920 receiver stamp. After 1920 it remains in Government hands and is refurbished a second time, perhaps in the early 1930’s? At this time the bolt is blued and the follower replaced to prevent the bolt to close on an empty chamber and it issued to what I believe was the training unit of the 7th Reiter Regiment which is, in late 1935, to become Abteilung/Panzer-Regiment 2. After that, who knows, perhaps the butt plate markings offer a clue, but I’m clueless!

As far as i can tell, the only original parts are the receiver, bolt release, trigger guard, floor plate trigger group, and butt plate. I am surprised at how crudely the renumbering of the replacement parts was done.

This is just my take on the rifle and I would appreciate corrections and observations.

More pictures

Additional photos

Just a few more

Interesting rifle!
Thanks for showing.

I'm pretty sure that the stock was replaced after WWI.
Both unit markings are correct for the post 1924 pattern. Only Kar.98As with no take down ferrule were allowed to be stamped on the butt plate tang. (=> the rifle did not have a take down ferrule at the time) When the rifle got the new stock (after 1924) with take down ferrule the unit marking was applied again. As per regulations on the take down ferrule.

With the introduction of the K98b, the Reichswehr did not use the K98A anymore, but kept many of them in their depots. Especially the cavalry units complained about the new K98b. They wanted their short K98A back, but had to live with the hated K98b, till the K98k was introduced.
When the Reichswehr started their trials with the shortened K98b, the cavalry units were the first to get some.

Wolfgang

That’s very helpful, and makes perfect sense. Would I be right in assuming that the major changes other than the present stock would have likely happened at Depot 3 and the rifle stamped 1920 in its original rebuilt configuration and then the stock and the follower changed and the bolt blued post 1924? Essentially, re-arsenaled twice?

Take a picture of the wrist, at a minimum it should have an acceptance stamp here. This was a ordnance spare stock or a leftover; hopefully the German ordnance depot marked it at the wrist, but typically early work is on the sides of the buttstock.. I am also curious as to the presence or absence of the property mark (1920) on the buttstock, should be on the left side if the stock was mated to this rifle at that period. If absent, the stock is a later addition.

Super interesting rifle, you rarely find anything this nice from that period, especially a 98a. As I said before, you had a good eye, - long before you should have! (instinctual rather that methodical in this case, as sure as shite if 98k and Imperial were a mystery, the Republic was doubly so.. largely still is)

The stock is remarkably free of markings, no 1920 stamp, no stamp at the wrist. The only markings are the small letter ‘s’, the serial number, and the two larger stamps. The butt plate markings would indicate it was issued to the 7th Reiter Regiment after being inventoried in 1920 but perhaps the stock was replaced sometime after 1924 when the marking location changed and the stock disk marked. Someone fell off their horse with the rifle and it required a new stock? Is there a chance that the stock was a late war replacement and they just changed the locations of the regimental markings after 1924?

As you say, this is a tricky period when many norms may not have applied.

Germans don't fall off horses...

From recollection, this is the first ordnance spare with no wrist acceptance, but I am sure it is authentic. Perhaps worn away or a leftover never installed, - or who knows... while the arsenals were demilitarized, they didn't just destroy machines and inventory, what could be sold or reutilized was, even if the IAMCC didn't approve, as evidenced by the numerous disputes over the new entities that rose from the ashes of the arsenals and government shipyards.

What is more certain is the stock lacking its corresponding "1920" property mark means it was a later addition. Probably not before 1924 as next to nothing constructive occurred in Germany prior to 1924. Germany first began to recover due to the Dawes plan, authored by a future VP and an interesting character, but generally it was not a good deal for the Germans (or the Americans... basically a big ponzi scheme), but it gave Germany some breathing space and the "opportunity" to take on enormous debt which later would contribute to German instability in 1930-31 (worse Dawes "legitimized" the reparations plans... it essentially turned the Versailles diktat into a treaty, at least in among the debt elements)

*** I doubt the stock is wartime, first if it were, the 1920 mark would have been applied, - while there are no absolutes, there are probabilities and it is highly likely "all" rifles/receivers that received the "1920" their stocks did as well, very few if any exceptions (though its pretty hard to prove "all" received the dual marking placement); further all known wartime ordnance spares have the wrist acceptance, at least so far as i have seen. It should be pointed out that the contradictions often seen on Republican era rifles was not due to a lack of regulation, laziness or even chaos... this was a long period, 1919-1933, it was a necessarily frugal era where rifles were kept in service longer, used in training constantly, moved around and eventually relegated to secondary functions... it is not uncommon to see rifles, especially 98a's, that have signs of numerous depots or unexplained markings.

CLG said:

The butt plate markings would indicate it was issued to the 7th Reiter Regiment after being inventoried in 1920 but perhaps the stock was replaced sometime after 1924 when the marking location changed and the stock disk marked. Someone fell off their horse with the rifle and it required a new stock? Is there a chance that the stock was a late war replacement and they just changed the locations of the regimental markings after 1924?

As you say, this is a tricky period when many norms may not have applied.

Click to expand...

Reminds me of a crudely renumbered 1918 Amberg that I had some 20+ years ago. I hope the pictures come through. This was long before cell phone cameras.