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Thread: C.G.H Suhl 1877 Kar71

  1. #11
    Senior Member chrisftk's Avatar
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    Great carbine Jordan and a pretty damn interesting unit marking to boot! I love the Suhl crest, nothing beats the eagle!

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

  2. #12
    Moderator˛ Loewe's Avatar
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    I finally had time to spend on the forum, just registered this rifle in the research thread; it caught my eye that VCS and CGH seem to have not intermingled and they "seem" to have been designated serial ranges for their production. Need more reports though, about a dozen reports do not make a trend, but it is interesting.

    I tried to make this "reasonable" theory work for CGH/JPS/VCS G98 production, it didn't fit well though and I had to resort to "I don't know how they were assigned numbers", but a friend that lurks here probably comes closest to a theory. He suggested that something along the lines of a daily or weekly (periodic anyway) assignment was made, - sort of a boy on a bicycle delivered serial ranges sort of thing! But these being peace time production time was less of a factor and blocks could be assigned in larger blocks-ranges. The only thing for sure is that the Consortium did seem to assemble and test rifles independently, with key components (receivers & barrels) made by a designated mfg for the independent assemblers. We know this because all barrels were JPS made and most receivers CGH made, VCS probably made smaller components or possibly stocks.

    Anyway, the breakdown of assigned serials are typically only in increments of a few hundred, so however it was done, it wasn't like this thousands wide.

    The unit, - I would be suspicious over a Reserve Field Bakery identification, not that I doubt Vincent's sincerity, but that sounds peculiar or unusual to me.. though I agree cooks and bakers need to be armed in the field. I mean sure in 1914 the bakery warriors would be armed with obsolete 71's(?) but in the 1880's?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    The unit, - I would be suspicious over a Reserve Field Bakery identification, not that I doubt Vincent's sincerity, but that sounds peculiar or unusual to me.. though I agree cooks and bakers need to be armed in the field. I mean sure in 1914 the bakery warriors would be armed with obsolete 71's(?) but in the 1880's?
    No hurt feeling heres. I am always interested to learn more and this forum is a great place to do so :-)

    When it comes to the unit marking my source is the book on german unitmarkings from Wacker & Görtz, page 84. I dont have a copy of the original bavarian 1882 unit marking regulation here so i can only write what i found in the book.

    Regarding the reserve field bakery itself. One would have to research when exactly this unit was founded.

    I think there is only the year of manufacturing 1877 stamped on the carbine and no second date that would indicate when this weapon was issued to a unit during the 70's or 80's?

    Maybe this carbine was in storage and when the bavarian resere army corps was put into service during the great war there were no more modern weapons for the bakers then the 1871 carbines? I dont think the reserve field bakery units were formed (and armed) before the war started in 1914 but then again i am in no way an expert on bavarian units.
    Imperial german bayonets, firearms, sword and more:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHf...I6hwQGIk3N8Ptg

  4. #14
    Moderator˛ Loewe's Avatar
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    We are in agreement, I certainly do not know, it just seemed implausible to me, not that I have any special insight regarding the arming of bakers or other auxiliary troops in the late 19th - early 20th century.

    How many bakers does this column have anyway? Second column implies there was a first, and weapon 152?

    Anyway, glad there are no hurt feelings as it wasn't intended as an insult or slight.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spartaner545 View Post
    No hurt feeling heres. I am always interested to learn more and this forum is a great place to do so :-)

  5. #15
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    Again, no expert on bavarian stuff but i could find the numbers for a prussian field bakery column in 1914. It shows that there are 188 men and low ranking officers and 3 high ranking officers.

    It should be the same numbers in the bavarian armed forces.
    Imperial german bayonets, firearms, sword and more:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHf...I6hwQGIk3N8Ptg

  6. #16
    Moderator˛ Loewe's Avatar
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    Thanks Vincent, I received an "informed" email yesterday that thought your original opinion is correct, basically the rifle was stored and when issued assigned to this unit or function.

    In any case, there is no other obvious explanation so your original theory is probably the correct one.

  7. #17
    ax - hole Warrior1354's Avatar
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    I'll be honest I think this has been a very interesting discussion between the two of you, I have learned some more stuff these past few days. I have many photos in my collection showing rear echelon soldiers armed with not only Gew 88 rifles or Kar88 carbines during the Great war. But many armed with 1871 Mauser rifles. Maybe these bakers got lucky and got issued with the carbines instead of the rifles.

    The main thing is I hope I was able to show everything on this scarce carbine for everybody and hope everyone enjoyed seeing it.

    Now I'm just hoping I can shoot it one day!
    "Don't use your musket if you can kill 'em with your hatchet"

    Major Robert Rogers 1757 Founder of the U.S Army Rangers

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