Third Party Press

C.G.H Suhl 1877 Kar71

Warrior1354

ax - hole
Alright this little carbine has been a elusive piece for me to find for my collection been hunting for a nice one for years. And when I had the chance to buy an all matching one made by one of the Suhl firms I took the opportunity. I really do thank Paul from Florida for that, great collector to deal with. Anyway this little carbine is all matching and is just a beauty to hold in your hands. It really does feel good to the shoulder light and handy and I could see why Calvary troops would like this little weapon. Even better it is unit marked to a Calvary unit as well which is always neat to see. Only thing I have done to this carbine is cleaned it her up. This carbine did have some light surface rust and some pitting underneath the wood line and it cleaned up quite nicely.


I did try to take pictures of everything main reason I don't think one of these has ever been posted here photograph in such detail. So now you have one plus a good data sheet for collectors to use as a reference guide. And marked my words this 142 carbine will speak again I can't wait to take it out to the range one day. Also it looks good next to my Jaguar 1871 Mauser too!

Maker: 1877 C.G.H Suhl Kar71
Receiver: 7603
Barrel: 7603 C.G.H
Trigger: 7603
Sear Lever: 7603
Sear Screw: 03
Rear Sight: 03
Rear Sight 300 Yard sight lever: 03
Rear Barrel Band: 7603
Trigger guard: 7603
Front Barrel Band: 7603
Front Barrel Band screw: 03
Buttplate: 7603 B.R.B.C.2.152
Buttplate Wood screws: 7603
Trigger guard wood screw: 7603
Front receiver screw: 7603
Back receiver screw: 7603
Trigger guard stock screw: 03
Stock sling swirl screws: 7603
Bolt Body: 7603
Bolt firing pin: 7603
Bolt Cocking piece: 7603
Bolt Head: 7603
Bolt end cap: 7603
Bolt Extractor: 7603
Bolt Safety: 7603
Bolt Washer: 7603
Bolt Washer screw: 03
 

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Bolt group, and Rear sight
 

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Stock and Stock components:
 

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Trigger guard and last of the pictures:
 

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That is one beautiful carbine Jordan, congrats on adding something you’ve been looking for! These are my favorite hands down of all the 71 pattern. :thumbsup:
 
Buttplate: 7603 B.R.B.C.2.152

It really is a great carbine but this is not a cavalry unit marking. i am sorry.

According to the bavarian 1882/1888 unit marking regulation B. R. B.C. 2. 152. "translates" to bavarian reserve field bakery column no. 2 weapon no. 152.


With kind regards

Vincent
 
It really is a great carbine but this is not a cavalry unit marking. i am sorry.

According to the bavarian 1882/1888 unit marking regulation B. R. B.C. 2. 152. "translates" to bavarian reserve field bakery column no. 2 weapon no. 152.


With kind regards

Vincent

Interesting...maybe while not as "cool" as a Cavalry unit, I bet a field bakery unit marked gin is harder to find!

Very cool carbine Jordan, that is one I have never seen in the wild, just don't see IG 71's or Kar 71's around, at all...maybe at SoS or Tulsa, but certainly not locally!
 
Very nice! I’ve been wanting one for a long long time, but the very few I have come across have been beyond my reach.

Very nice addition!
 
I agree, I too think the 71's are fascinating, especially the carbines and Jägers, they are pretty elusive also (both in observations and the subject, other than Storz and Walters, these are mysteries... I am sure our research thread, over time, will give us a better understanding of what is out there and patterns).

That is one beautiful carbine Jordan, congrats on adding something you’ve been looking for! These are my favorite hands down of all the 71 pattern. :thumbsup:
 
It really is a great carbine but this is not a cavalry unit marking. i am sorry.

According to the Bavarian 1882/1888 unit marking regulation B. R. B.C. 2. 152. "translates" to Bavarian reserve field bakery column no. 2 weapon no. 152.


With kind regards

Vincent

Well I need to work on my unit marking studies Vincent. From the unit stamps I thought it was marked to Chevaulegers unit. But I glad to see you cleared up my mistake. But being marked to a bakery column does sound interesting. I had a good friend of mine who's Grandfather was a cook in WWII he was armed with M1 carbine. Even though that was in 1944 I don't see why 1877 would have been any different. Even cooks have to defend themselves.
 
Great carbine Jordan and a pretty damn interesting unit marking to boot! I love the Suhl crest, nothing beats the eagle!

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
 
I finally had time to spend on the forum, just registered this rifle in the research thread; it caught my eye that VCS and CGH seem to have not intermingled and they "seem" to have been designated serial ranges for their production. Need more reports though, about a dozen reports do not make a trend, but it is interesting.

I tried to make this "reasonable" theory work for CGH/JPS/VCS G98 production, it didn't fit well though and I had to resort to "I don't know how they were assigned numbers", but a friend that lurks here probably comes closest to a theory. He suggested that something along the lines of a daily or weekly (periodic anyway) assignment was made, - sort of a boy on a bicycle delivered serial ranges sort of thing! But these being peace time production time was less of a factor and blocks could be assigned in larger blocks-ranges. The only thing for sure is that the Consortium did seem to assemble and test rifles independently, with key components (receivers & barrels) made by a designated mfg for the independent assemblers. We know this because all barrels were JPS made and most receivers CGH made, VCS probably made smaller components or possibly stocks.

Anyway, the breakdown of assigned serials are typically only in increments of a few hundred, so however it was done, it wasn't like this thousands wide.

The unit, - I would be suspicious over a Reserve Field Bakery identification, not that I doubt Vincent's sincerity, but that sounds peculiar or unusual to me.. though I agree cooks and bakers need to be armed in the field. I mean sure in 1914 the bakery warriors would be armed with obsolete 71's(?) but in the 1880's?
 
The unit, - I would be suspicious over a Reserve Field Bakery identification, not that I doubt Vincent's sincerity, but that sounds peculiar or unusual to me.. though I agree cooks and bakers need to be armed in the field. I mean sure in 1914 the bakery warriors would be armed with obsolete 71's(?) but in the 1880's?

No hurt feeling heres. I am always interested to learn more and this forum is a great place to do so :)

When it comes to the unit marking my source is the book on german unitmarkings from Wacker & Görtz, page 84. I dont have a copy of the original bavarian 1882 unit marking regulation here so i can only write what i found in the book.

Regarding the reserve field bakery itself. One would have to research when exactly this unit was founded.

I think there is only the year of manufacturing 1877 stamped on the carbine and no second date that would indicate when this weapon was issued to a unit during the 70's or 80's?

Maybe this carbine was in storage and when the bavarian resere army corps was put into service during the great war there were no more modern weapons for the bakers then the 1871 carbines? I dont think the reserve field bakery units were formed (and armed) before the war started in 1914 but then again i am in no way an expert on bavarian units.
 
We are in agreement, I certainly do not know, it just seemed implausible to me, not that I have any special insight regarding the arming of bakers or other auxiliary troops in the late 19th - early 20th century.

How many bakers does this column have anyway? Second column implies there was a first, and weapon 152?

Anyway, glad there are no hurt feelings as it wasn't intended as an insult or slight.


No hurt feeling heres. I am always interested to learn more and this forum is a great place to do so :)
 
Again, no expert on bavarian stuff but i could find the numbers for a prussian field bakery column in 1914. It shows that there are 188 men and low ranking officers and 3 high ranking officers.

It should be the same numbers in the bavarian armed forces.
 
Thanks Vincent, I received an "informed" email yesterday that thought your original opinion is correct, basically the rifle was stored and when issued assigned to this unit or function.

In any case, there is no other obvious explanation so your original theory is probably the correct one.
 
I'll be honest I think this has been a very interesting discussion between the two of you, I have learned some more stuff these past few days. I have many photos in my collection showing rear echelon soldiers armed with not only Gew 88 rifles or Kar88 carbines during the Great war. But many armed with 1871 Mauser rifles. Maybe these bakers got lucky and got issued with the carbines instead of the rifles.

The main thing is I hope I was able to show everything on this scarce carbine for everybody and hope everyone enjoyed seeing it.

Now I'm just hoping I can shoot it one day!
 

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