Ajack SS Dienstglas on SSR - arsenal reserialized

While not the most beautiful ensemble, I nevertheless liked it for having two rifle serials on it. Note it was originally issued with rifle #166, then in an arsenal re-serialized with EP to rifle #8597 (plus they scratched the original rifle serial on the scope tube with the EP as well). Second thing to point out, note the mount is the very early "Köhler type" with the lightly beveled surface between the two rings and no HWZ logo. Assembly number of mount is 673, both scope rings have the 73 on them to match the bottom part of the mount.

Small side note: I filled the markings with chalk to make them better visible. The SS Dienstglas engraving is fortunately not fully gone.

Absolut said:

While not the most beautiful ensemble, I nevertheless liked it for having two rifle serials on it. Note it was originally issued with rifle #166, then in an arsenal re-serialized with EP to rifle #8597 (plus they scratched the original rifle serial on the scope tube with the EP as well). Second thing to point out, note the mount is the very early "Köhler type" with the lightly beveled surface between the two rings and no HWZ logo. Assembly number of mount is 673, both scope rings have the 73 on them to match the bottom part of the mount.

Small side note: I filled the markings with chalk to make them better visible. The SS Dienstglas engraving is fortunately not fully gone.

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Thanks for sharing Georg. That is the first scope I have seen with EP for a serial number. That's interesting. Have you seen any other scopes like that?

Very good thread on the SSR and variations. Thanks. Is it a sticky yet?

Hercules said:

Thanks for sharing Georg. That is the first scope I have seen with EP for a serial number. That's interesting. Have you seen any other scopes like that?

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Generally re-serialized SSR mounts and scopes are out there, but rarer. It however was a first time for me as well to see this with an Electro Pencil done, but given the condition it is in there was no reason to doubt this. It reminded me of the SS DC snipers which sometimes also have EP bolts - my guess therefore is that maybe also this arsenal did the "pairing" to a new rifle. Obviously they didn't dare to file off the serial number on a scope tube.

Yes Georg. Very interesting scope. Definitely a pic sticky.

It appears to me that threads on new discoveries such as this scope mount combo attracts much less attention and discussion than the turd built on a sniper rifle. I had always thought this forum was dedicated to the study, but this might had changed over the last few years. Significant information and history which unveiled on German WWII sniper rifles gets less attention than the discussion on a Russian captured K98k rifle by Mauser. So never mind Brian, next time we'll better discuss something in private.

Hello Georg. I enjoy your postings here. I think this is a great scope and I think it is just possibly the only one like it that anyone has ever seen. If another turns up like it your post here will be of great help to other collectors. SS marked stuff intimidates a lot of people. Most discount it right away, because of the great number of fakes. I personally like this scope as it is different and not typical. Thanks for posting this.

Also, this is kind of an opinion piece. Some will like it and some will not. It falls outside the norm of SS scopes. I personally like it. You are also, correct that SSZZA4 rifles have scribed numbers as well. Maybe same technique as used to mark this reworked scope. This electro pencil method does not show up on many scopes.

Absolut said:

It appears to me that threads on new discoveries such as this scope mount combo attracts much less attention and discussion than the turd built on a sniper rifle. I had always thought this forum was dedicated to the study, but this might had changed over the last few years. Significant information and history which unveiled on German WWII sniper rifles gets less attention than the discussion on a Russian captured K98k rifle by Mauser. So never mind Brian, next time we'll better discuss something in private.

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Georg if you view the members list below there are many members who have viewed your Set . Just because there is lack of comments this does not mean there is NO interests or Lack of Interest . IMHO I would say there appears to be a lot of interest about this set , I would ask why would you equate lack of comments to equal lack of interest . You admitted Yourself that this is the first set like this that You have seen and its very likely this applies to most if not all that have viewed this thread Myself included . How can someone make an informative comment that they know nothing about or have ever seen possibly .

This forum always has been and always will be about information and discussion that help advance collectors knowledge but as I mentioned it is very hard to have an informative discussion about something You know anything about because it the first such example you have ever seen.

That said I think Your Set is a Very Interesting Set , but other than saying that I have nothing I can add because this is First Set or should say SS Dienstglas Scope that have seen ReNumbered in this fashion .

Same here, Georg, I would add something if I had anything of substance to add!

I have to admit I have been passed over many times in relation to the knowledge out there on snipers, for years I struggled to find any new info, now it is everywhere, and good info and good photos thanks to the internet and great books (Mike and Bruce and all who contributed.)

I sit back and watch more these days, I read every post on this forum, especially this optics section - 100%, I miss the days when I was more active in research than I am now.

Keep posting, and thank you.

Jeff

And furthermore, Georg, I do appreciate you taking the time to photograph and share all these pieces in your collection, without all the sharing we all enjoy here, we are all far worse off as hobbyists.

Jeff

Well Dave if there are nearly no repsonses I do take it as a lack of interest. Why would so many contribute on making faux rifles or ZF41 discussions for the 150th time, whereas a set like this gets no comments? I will ask the opposite way, how should I notice that there are people interested when they read this but don't reply?

The information that Brian was giving was the one I was hoping for. SSZZA4 is the ones who did EP serializing. Why not compare the font being used as on these sets and maybe assume it is the same person who did the serializing? Or are there any other SS scopes which have a newly applied rifle serial, but maybe in another fashion? You said you had not seen this method of re-serializing before, I could therefore assume you had seen another one. Why not compare it with this one?

Finally, as a last guess: if it was SSZZA4 who re-matched the scope and mount to another rifle - could it be that the rifle it was re-matched to was NOT a Gew98 converted to K98k with Deaths Head? Could it be that they fitted a SSR mount to maybe like a bnz43 single rune rifle and matched the mount to it?

If there was no interest then there would not have been so many viewing it IMHO . Well as far as I am concerned comments or lack of comments do not necessarily equal interest or lack of interest .

The Faux Sniper is an easy topic for many here to discuss , they knew what there discussing . Your Set is different it is the first one seen I have seen and likely by most here .

I'm going to say something that isn't going to be received well - there are almost no "researchers" in the field of sniper collecting, people who might use the interesting info from the scope you posted (hint - I don't collect info on snipers).

There, I said it. Now let me elaborate. When we were writing the books, there was only one guy who we could go to who I would consider a researcher in sniper collecting, vaughn99 (Eric). Sure, there are guys that know a lot (all of them I know are on here) and all of them could answer direct questions, but it was difficult at best to find any kind of reliable database other than his (some did provide specific information by email from private studies). I had to collect a lot of information from photos and serial studies I had done (such as specific serial ranges). It seems most sniper collectors are just that, collectors of rifles and scopes.

Now, with that, I can guarantee there are some sniper guys who read this thread and will be offended. Most sniper collectors are very "close to the chest" with information. It's like some kind of secret info that if it got out the world may be in danger. Look how tough it is to get people to share scope mount numbers to match up guns. It's nearly impossible.

George, you may be the most active and inquisitive guy I know, and your frustration in this thread is exactly what happened to me when I was writing the book. Rather than get upset, maybe you guys should use this section of the forum to collaborate - publicly. Public serial collection threads of serial ranges, etc. - how many of you know the serial number ranges for Sauer low turret and Sauer high turret? How about Sauer LSR rifles, or Gustloff LSR rifles? Why is there no threads? I had to painfully dig even that simple information out.

To aid in this, I fired the previous Moderator of this forum today (he's been inactive since 2012), and in the vein of helping you guys being to collect and share information, I am willing to appoint a new moderator for the sniper section. Lets pick someone - I have an idea of a few guys that would make excellent choices, maybe we could have 2. Is this something you guys would support? It doesn't pay at all.....

One more thing - I like the idea that this scope could have been reworked by the very same facility that marked rifles SSZZA4, it is totally possible, and your clue about the serial numbering style could have merit. Of course it would take much more than just a number on a scope. My feeling is even if the scope was replaced at that facility, the rifle would NOT have been marked SSZZA4.

As I told you in an email, I have a very new theory about the SSZZA1, SSZZA2 and SSZZA4 stamps and their meaning, something I plan to elaborate on in the Mauser section.

Dave, the number of visits to a certain thread does not tell anything. It could also be visitors coming through Google, nothing more. But let me put it into other words - the owners of this forum don't have to pay a penny for each post being made in here, so it would not hurt collectors to give a comment and make some assumptions and share their believes. The mass sometimes helps in finding out new information because others might think in different directions than you would do. But anyway, would you possibly share some pictures of the EP markings on your SS DC sniper rifle, to possibly compare the handwriting with the one on my particular scope?

Mike, I can concur with some of your observations. Many sniper collectors "hide" their data and their items. It is my personal guess that some of them still carry the hope to at some point find the missing matching part to their rifle. Would they had represented their rifle without a scope and then all of a sudden being complete with a matching number scope, wouldn't it look suspicious to many out there? And with the much lower number of snipers being made the chances for such a discovery is higher, but still very small. Secondly, normal rifles aren't that faked as sniper rifles. This is a result of the higher demand and rank of sniper items. And the more you unveil certain patterns and details, the better the fakers can get. I've personally experienced telling someone in great detail what is wrong with what I thought was an undiscerning purchase of him, when a year later he came up with a sniper rifle with the same mount which then didn't feature the obvious mistakes I had pointed out to him. So my information had helped forgers becoming better, and that was also why I decided to keep some details to myself to nevertheless be able to determine what is original and what is a fake.

Then there is the answer why you don’t get responses on sniper items.

I'll say yes, the more info you share the fakers get better. But, the less info you share, the less informed other collectors are, and the more people are taken by fraudulent rifles. Sniper collecting isn't that hard, but sniper collectors make it hard by not staying up to speed on the newest available information. The reason? Nobody shared it with them so they are stuck in 1985, buying fake ce44 short side rails and fake byf43 short side rails, guns which never even existed for easy to understand reasons. Guys like you that take the time to actually learn for yourself do OK, but the rest of the community is "shite outta luck" (this is NOT a jab at you Georg, you post a ton of great items and are very sharing and helpful, this is for the silent community).

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I, for one, have always struggled with sniper stuff, it is what I love and gravitate toward, but it is a real challenge collecting data and learning new things in this field. I have been into snipers for many years, starting off with a couple scopes and little else. There were no books besides Law, and everything else I learned came hard. I think I can hold a rifle in hand and have a better than average ability to authenticate it, but this is a tough area. SS snipers and scopes, even more so. Mike and Bruce's books changed everything, and Robert Spielauer's as well. I owe Dave Roberts a great debt for all the phone calls and info I have gotten from him, personally.

I used to keep scope and rifle databases, I fell behind and no longer maintain any seriously. I also used to fanatically collect photos. I think more collectors do keep records but are unwilling to share for the reasons stated above, the stakes are high money wise, and any advantage translates into a financial edge in a pretty treacherous area of collecting.

I wish we maintained all the pic stickies, databases, serial lists, and so on right here on this sub-forum like the regular K98k section, and I agree with Mike's comments on fakers being in possession of this info.

As far as the moderator thing goes, I had no idea anyone ever even moderated here. We at least need someone to be more active in making this sub-forum a better data collection point, maintaining sticky threads and data lists.

I love this stuff, but to be honest, I am priced out of new purchases for the most part, but I do intend to stay with it in whatever capacity I can.

Jeff

Mike, there is a difference in sharing pictures of new acquisitions and pointing out details, compared to tell people what in particular is wrong with this and that. While sharing information, pictures and discoveries is for me an educational thing, identification and verification can be seen as evaluation where you need a lot of experience. But the good thing on evaluations is that you can give your opinion and do not necessarily need to name all small details and information you had used to get to your point of view.

Georg.The number of Members who visit the thread does show how much interest there is , lack of comments does not mean lack of interest maybe in your mind but not mine . The Members list are just that our Members . These members are not coming to view from GOOGLE they are from the K98FORUM . You have to be a member to view photos and threads here . All you need do is scroll to the bottom of this thread to see the number of Members who have viewed this thread and so far 118 have viewed , but none of these 118 are interested except You and Brian . I have made Post here were only 3 or 4 members viewed the thread thats called lack of interest in fact it was a Thread about blc HT Scope 11 members viewed and even fewer replied to this Thread , why so few because No One had ever seen a blc HIGH TURRET Scope before which is my point about lack of comments or discussion about Your Set . Should I have been upset because there was little discussion , no I attributed it to this being the First Posted Example being shared here at that time .In general I do not make comments on items I know nothing about , but that does not mean I am not interested . I can have interest without commenting
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread...VIER-blc-Code&highlight=BLC+High+Turret+Scope



As for sharing my SSZZA4 & SSZZA2 Rifle thats was done long ago , like almost everything I add to my collection I share .http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?2265-Ss-dbl-claw-sszza4-amp-sszza2&highlight=SSZZA4+SSZZA2

Best Regards