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Thread: Danzig Gewehr 98m Reworked in 1939?

  1. #61
    Member Rutche's Avatar
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    I agree. It really does seem like it was reworked towards the end of the 30’s my guess would be 1937, then again in 1940. Overall i really think this rifle has taught me alot. Im just wondering if i can maybe find a faint HZa marking, or if the wing that i found on the grip was the HZa depot marking, its hard to tell. I really would like to learn more about the history of these rifles, as they have seen so much history. I think that the wing that i found “was” the depot marking, but it was poorly stricken, faded and eventually lost almost entirely

  2. #62
    Moderator˛ Loewe's Avatar
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    I can't make out or see any part of the marking within the circle, but "generally" the acceptance would be more centered along the area where the trigger guard lines up, it can be off to one side or another or lower on the rounded area, or almost anywhere along the lower edge of the buttstock, also very common on the sides of the buttstock, but the Germans weren't French or Italians, they were pretty rigid and predictable within their patterns. Mostly the differences are a product of time, place and the individual (and his circumstances), but the guidelines seem to be generally adhered too.

    That it is very difficult to find means it probably has worn away or weakly struck and would add little to the value.. the rifle looks in great condition too, which makes it all the more unusual (often these rifles are beat up or mismatchers and its more understandable the markings are gone or indecipherable...) Had it been clearly identifiable, especially if it identified both depots, the value would have been higher, but there is little doubt this is authentic, - these are not valuable enough to entice the best humpers to "create" or "enhance" them. They prefer the big game, the German pistols and variations of the 98k and perhaps some work the Imperial angles (where it is easier and sometime profitable - its is far easier to "enhance" a G98 than a 98k or Republican era rework.. it is common practice for collectors to parts swap to "match" up small mismatched parts, the study of acceptance patterns among Imperial era arms is far more work than numeric waffenamts...)

  3. #63
    Member Rutche's Avatar
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    I took her outside (better light) would've done it earlier but it was raining for 3 days in SC. I didn't find an LK5 stamp, or a depot stamp unfortunately. infact i didnt even find an indentation where it should be. No idea why, but maybe the whole thing was just assembled in one place, with parts that were leftover? would make sense as to why some parts are of earlier manufacture, but still i would expect a depot stamp but I don't know. maybe one day someone will find a rifle similar to mine, and comparisons can be made

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutche View Post
    Speaking of the 1937, the barrel band does have an eagle, and a suww 1937 on it i dont know if this helps in identifying anything
    Attachment 219625
    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    It is one of the upgrade rear bands, only Simson and HZa Spandau made them. It would have been marked like this when made, not necessarily the installation. It was designed to give more surface area to this load bearing surface. As anyone who has owned a G98 will testify, the original narrow band sometimes slips loose the spring and under load can marr the stock around this point. I am sure the extra metal keeps it from, or less prone to, breaking.

    I assume this band matches? If it doesn't it is unrelated, though the spring holding in place would also suggest this was the original configuration. It does lend some credibility to the "guess" that this was HZa Spandau done; while these bands were supplied to others the combination of the weird stock acceptance and this band does support this scenario. Depots, especially small fries, didn't usually add the E/H (in the Republican era they did, you often see E/H, E/M or E/P, this is why I think a big depot might be behind this, but HZa Spandau is usually proud of their work and probably the most prone to marking the stock...), though I would still tend to hang my hat of these E/H and nazi eagles were applied at different times (though I can't see a good reason why)
    Would the SuWw indicate a production/repair facility at the HZa Spandau? Not a civilian/commercial factory/business? Thank you.

  5. #65
    Moderator˛ Loewe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeW View Post
    Would the SuWw indicate a production/repair facility at the HZa Spandau? Not a civilian/commercial factory/business? Thank you.
    Joe, I believe it represents the band manufacturer, much in the same way S/42K/G represents the components mfg (only Simson and Spandau are known to have made these wider bands which were a clear improvement to the narrow bands) . The parts show up on rifles with no direct connection to HZa Spandau. I do not recall the issue or date, but I believe Mark Wieringa wrote a brief (2 page) article in Automag on the subject. I do not recall what he stated exactly, but he gave his thoughts to the subject and his observations. I am sure his thoughts influenced mine as they do on several subjects.

    Somewhat related is the Spreewerke barrels (Spreewerke Berlin) made during rearmament, these have Spreewerke trademarks but HZa acceptance (Su##) I believe HZa Spandau retained much of its Spandau Arsenal roles, at least until rearmament was well underway. Unlike the barrels, which have a commercial trademark (along with HZa Spandau acceptance), the bands have ony the Su markings and bands are well within HZa Spandau's capabilities, they clearly did complex work, the 1929 conversion plan that led to the 98k, the fact it was the center of ordnance work (more so than Kassel/Cassel) during the Republican period.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    Joe, I believe it represents the band manufacturer, much in the same way S/42K/G represents the components mfg (only Simson and Spandau are known to have made these wider bands which were a clear improvement to the narrow bands) . The parts show up on rifles with no direct connection to HZa Spandau. I do not recall the issue or date, but I believe Mark Wieringa wrote a brief (2 page) article in Automag on the subject. I do not recall what he stated exactly, but he gave his thoughts to the subject and his observations. I am sure his thoughts influenced mine as they do on several subjects.

    Somewhat related is the Spreewerke barrels (Spreewerke Berlin) made during rearmament, these have Spreewerke trademarks but HZa acceptance (Su##) I believe HZa Spandau retained much of its Spandau Arsenal roles, at least until rearmament was well underway. Unlike the barrels, which have a commercial trademark (along with HZa Spandau acceptance), the bands have ony the Su markings and bands are well within HZa Spandau's capabilities, they clearly did complex work, the 1929 conversion plan that led to the 98k, the fact it was the center of ordnance work (more so than Kassel/Cassel) during the Republican period.
    I didn't realize Spandau was an industrial center with commercial manufacturers besides the old Spandau/HZa Su facilities. The reason I ask, is that on another forum, a canvas strap with a small karabiner clip attached was proposed as a flare pistol lanyard. On the karabiner clip is stamped SuWw/1938 and some type of an acceptance stamp over 4. I thought it was a mark of a military Spandau Waffenwerkstatt, rather than a commercial enterprise. I will go looking for Mark's article. Only fifty indexes to examine! Thank you for your thoughts.

  7. #67
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    Joe, Try January 1996

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