Third Party Press

Japanese contract Vz-24

flynaked

Repo Field Gear Collector
Got a call from a pawnshop, I almost didn’t go look, glad I did.
 

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FN, that Vz.24 is matching. Definitely Jap., though there are P and C prefix which ended up Slovak issued, sold to the Romanians, etc. Most original Vz.24 slings show up on these, with Kanji. There is strong circumstantial and period / vet anecdotal evidence that the majority of these were bringbacks from the Philippines where they were pulled from a depot / warehouse and handed out as souvenirs. These were IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy) issued for their ground troops.
 
FN, that Vz.24 is matching. Definitely Jap., though there are P and C prefix which ended up Slovak issued, sold to the Romanians, etc. Most original Vz.24 slings show up on these, with Kanji. There is strong circumstantial and period / vet anecdotal evidence that the majority of these were bringbacks from the Philippines where they were pulled from a depot / warehouse and handed out as souvenirs. These were IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy) issued for their ground troops.

I've never seen a C used by the Romanians.
 
I've never seen a C used by the Romanians.

Me neither, but I've heard of them. Andy can provide detailed info, but I believe the C prefix rifles were definitely meant for the Chinese. But again, not all of those contracts made it. I see far more Ps than Cs, so would see far less of a C which was Romanian.
 
The piece is matching and in origin condition, it was prepared for export contract but was later accepted to CS army contract as 1938 was a large mobilisation as Germans knocked already on the door, its mostly delivered to China late 1938 or Japan early 1939, problem is the P and C series were mixed and in 1939 by delivering the 40000 pcs of Vz24 to Japan were send some quantity of primary destined to China, secondly the China delivered Vz.24 rifles were partly confiscated by Japan army too, so only japan characters on buttstock could say its real japan or china contract. b.r.Andy
 
Perhaps my post was taken wrong, it was simply a preface with what the shop had told me over the phone, so you can imagine my surprise when I got there and they pulled this out of the back. I saw the sling and instantly knew what it was, a quick look over and sure enough it matched, no clue why they said it was a m/m. While it’s not proof one way or the other it is very interesting to note that this rifle came in along with the Type38 from the same family in identical closet condition.

Hopefully we have a good day for pictures here soon, it’s hard to see some of the details in the crappy light, for instance the RR proof is double struck! Thanks for all the great info! One thing I’ve always been fuzzy on are the slings, are they factory done? I’ve never compared examples to see if the characters are all the same?
 
They probably were souvenired at the same time. That’s cool. Would be nice if they had remembered the vet name. The slings are Czech. and were part of the contract evidently. The markings on the slings were Japanese, done at the depot / unit level, and I think ID a weapon number and perhaps unit assignment. Get a good pic and there are guys who can translate.
 
That’s cool, I had wondered in the past, but it was never something I dug into. Here are a couple shots I had of it, I’ll look if there are any markings I missed when I get home.
 

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Mostly a japanese characters, should be deciphered by some japanese or other historians that known the language, i personally tend by similar non damaged or used rifles, that this is a real japanese 1939 contract. b.r.Andy
 
Nice vz24 as others have said already it looks original and in very nice shape. I have always wondered who the Japanese exactly issued these rifles to as all of these I have seen with definitive Japanese provenance are in a similar condition. By the way what did the Type 38 look like and what was the selling price of your vz24?
 
I believe Pzjgr can now answer the Type38 question. By the time I got to the shop they had already priced it and I left very reasonably. This rifle is definitely very dusty, I literally could blow off a bunch of the dust after I took these pictures. Also the sling was that kind of untouched and dry that left brown dust on my jeans, mmmm closet rifles haha.
 
They were for IJN, Imperial Japanese Navy. The same as the “Type I” Carcanos. There is a picture of IJN troops drilling or marching with them in the Honeycutt Arisaka book. I believe there may be contract information to confirm this. Also, some of the anectdotal provenance is that the warehouse these came out of in the Phillippines was for IJN construction/ground troop supply. Not all IJN forces were Jap. marines (NLF). Most were not. They were construction, maintenance, and those without ships.
 
That’s really neat, I presume they loaded their own 8mm or was it purchased as well I wonder?
 
They bought it I am sure. I have never seen Jap. made and issued 7.92. For some reason the IJN was outside of, or otherwise had reduced access to, the small arm supply chain of the IJA. Many of these islands, and areas of islands, were built up, fortified, and maintained by IJN work crews (like Seabees). When invasions came, these warm bodies were organized into fighting units and armed with what the IJN had. It's not like arming up a bunch of American Seabees from that period, most of whom at least had firearm / hunting experience. These IJN and Korean armed construction workers were pretty much human speed bumps, waiting to be killed.
 
Both the P and C prefixes have been associated with Japanese issue. There is direct evidence of this. Did the Japanese capture a large number of C prefix weapons? Was a portion of the C prefix contract diverted to the Japanese? I don't know that we know. What we do know is that C and P prefix rifles have been brought back by PTO vets from Japanese depots, primarily on the Philippines.
 
My understanding was the "P" prefix were the Chinese rifles, of which a huge number were captured by the Japanese. There was also a direct sale to the Japanese Navy in 1938 of 40,000 VZ24's that had the "C" prefix, with the prefix on the stock s/n, but not the receiver for some reason.
 
Andyb has provided information on those contracts I believe. There are Czech period documents concerning those contracts. However, there is a gap concerning production. Some P and C rifles were simply diverted to other contracts and Czech use as well.
 

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