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Thread: Period Sniper Photo

  1. #1
    Is that a scope you have in your pocket?
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    Default Period Sniper Photo

    I have alway wondered what type Sniper Rifle and what the Scope & Mount are on this Rifle .
    IMO , the Rifle looks to be a 1903A1 Type rifle but the Scope & Mount appear to be and or resemble
    First Pattern Stith-Kollmorgen Sniper Scope with Griffin & Howe MC-1 Mount

    Does anyone one know for certain what Type Sniper Rifle and Scope & Mount are in this photo ????
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    Default Scope

    Dave, Thatís definitely a S-K scope. I have a USMC marked one just like it that sits on my MC-1 rifle. Question is why is it on that rifle? Too bad we donít have a picture of the left side of the receiver attachment.
    Option 1; real rig made by Japanese armorer in fieldó ehhh ... 2: post war picture of a fantasy piece. My penny sense. Andy

    QUOTE=Dave Roberts;282494]I have alway wondered what type Sniper Rifle and what the Scope & Mount are on this Rifle .
    IMO , the Rifle looks to be a 1903A1 Type rifle but the Scope & Mount appear to be and or resemble
    First Pattern Stith-Kollmorgen Sniper Scope with Griffin & Howe MC-1 Mount

    Does anyone one know for certain what Type Sniper Rifle and Scope & Mount are in this photo ????[/QUOTE]
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    Last edited by alund; 11-01-2019 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Added picture

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    Beavis Moderator Intern mdarnell19's Avatar
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    I thought I heard somewhere that this picture was from a TV show. Maybe Combat????? I canít remember if it was this one or another photo. Iíll see if I can find the thread. It was on another forum.

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    Is that a scope you have in your pocket?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdarnell19 View Post
    I thought I heard somewhere that this picture was from a TV show. Maybe Combat????? I canít remember if it was this one or another photo. Iíll see if I can find the thread. It was on another forum.
    Please Do , I have wondered if it was a Period photo or other for Years .

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    Beavis Moderator Intern mdarnell19's Avatar
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    Alund took these screen shots from the thread on gunboards where it was discussed.

    1AE58162-AF7C-49C1-85AB-9AE5B87FAF64.jpgAA38E16F-8A76-4CEB-AC0C-3C59AF3D08F1.jpg

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    Default Hollywood creation

    Soldier appears Japanese (or Far East Russian) but his uniform strikes me as more Japanese than anything.

    We can rule out the Mosin-Nagant PE/PEM scope. Those were overbore mounted scopes. Their semi (SVT-38 & SVT-40) had a side mounted PE scope and the Tokarev had a short PU over-bored mounted scope.

    Rifle appears to be (I've no glasses) an 03 Springfield rifle to me with a side mounted scope. Rear sight looks like the 03 Springfield's. Also consider the location of the rear sight near the receiver and the handguard. It has a cocking knob of the 03 Springfield. Mind you, this would be a commercial setup and not military. Stith made offset scope mounts for a while and you can see the ads in the earlier (1940s) American Rifleman magazine. Scope could be Kollmorgen (at least it looks like a 4x Kollmorgen).

    Japanese scopes (Type 97 & Type 99) did not have adjustment knobs for windage or elevation. The latter was done by the reticle and the former done by the factory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alund View Post
    Dave, Thatís definitely a S-K scope. I have a USMC marked one just like it that sits on my MC-1 rifle. Question is why is it on that rifle? Too bad we donít have a picture of the left side of the receiver attachment.
    Option 1; real rig made by Japanese armorer in fieldó ehhh ... 2: post war picture of a fantasy piece. My penny sense. Andy

    QUOTE=Dave Roberts;282494]I have alway wondered what type Sniper Rifle and what the Scope & Mount are on this Rifle .
    IMO , the Rifle looks to be a 1903A1 Type rifle but the Scope & Mount appear to be and or resemble
    First Pattern Stith-Kollmorgen Sniper Scope with Griffin & Howe MC-1 Mount

    Does anyone one know for certain what Type Sniper Rifle and Scope & Mount are in this photo ????
    [/QUOTE]

    M-1C Griffin & Howe? Top split rings were like those on the G&H. Hard to tell without image of the mount.

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    Default Period sniper photo

    M-1C Griffin & Howe? Top split rings were like those on the G&H. Hard to tell without image of the mount.[/QUOTE]

    MC-1; itís the marine corps version of the armyís M1-C rifle. The MC-1 used a stith kollmorgan 4x scope on the larger 1 inch ringed griffen Howe Mount. The M1-C used the m81 or m82 scopes on a 7/8ths inch mount as the army standard. Both mounts used the exact same scope base which was attached directly to the receiver sidewall. So one can make an MC-1 from an M1-C if they had the correct scope mount and real scope. The scope pictured in Daveís ďperiod sniper photoĒ above is a S-K with a 1 inch griffen Howe Mount (real or repro who knows) mounted on some Japanese weapon. The 2nd picture shown is a real marine marked stith kollmorgan 4x scope with a real g-h Mount. That picture is from one of the original rifles which came out of Quantico in early 70ís as an original confirmed MC-1. There are about a dozen of them confirmed.
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    Alund - you're joking right? Even though I don't have my reading glasses, I can see the large bent down bolt handle. That's not a M1 Garand but an 03A1 Springfield. Also note the large cocking piece at the rear of the bolt. That screams Springfield. Proximity of the rear sight to the receiver as well as the lack of rear aperture sights (like on the M-1C/M-1D) also says Springfield. The raised safety near the end of the bolt is also Springfield (but Mauser has this and the distinction of the cocking knob makes it not a Mauser). Note the bulge (top view) on the right side of the receiver. That also screams Springfield. Go to this link for another image of the receiver (never mind the sporterizing):

    https://images.gunsinternational.com...BB2693BA87.jpg

    This is probably a Hollywierd image and we know it's entertainment, not education. Audie Murphy's Red Badge of Courage and Jimmy Stewart's Shenandoah both used Trapdoor Springfields - something not fielded until post Civil War. The old All Quiet on the Western Front had a French sniper using a scoped Mauser 98 to kill Paul. Why should this image be an exception?

    I suspect the scope mount is G&H, but there were numerous aftermarket scope mounts in the '30s-'50s and without seeing the mount, we can't tell. I do agree with the scope though as only the British and the Russians (OK, that suck Weaver M73 and the Leupold Alaskan) had turrets for adjusting for windage and elevation. The Germans and Japanese scopes lacked these features.
    Last edited by Blackpowderresearcher; 11-08-2019 at 05:37 PM.

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    Default the scope not the rifle

    I think we may be talking about apples and watermelons..... I am not talking about the rifle at all. I am only talking about the scope and mount. I could care less about the rifle. those scopes were only on the MC-1s I think you are talking about the rifle. I say what I am talking about again.... that is a stith kollmorgan scope and mount... whether or not its a military version, we will never know. Clearly that is not an M1 Garand, yes, I can tell that from the bolt alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackpowderresearcher View Post
    Alund - you're joking right? Even though I don't have my reading glasses, I can see the large bent down bolt handle. That's not a M1 Garand but an 03A1 Springfield. Also note the large cocking piece at the rear of the bolt. That screams Springfield. Proximity of the rear sight to the receiver as well as the lack of rear aperture sights (like on the M-1C/M-1D) also says Springfield. The raised safety near the end of the bolt is also Springfield (but Mauser has this and the distinction of the cocking knob makes it not a Mauser). Note the bulge (top view) on the right side of the receiver. That also screams Springfield. Go to this link for another image of the receiver (never mind the sporterizing):

    https://images.gunsinternational.com...BB2693BA87.jpg

    This is probably a Hollywierd image and we know it's entertainment, not education. Audie Murphy's Red Badge of Courage and Jimmy Stewart's Shenandoah both used Trapdoor Springfields - something not fielded until post Civil War. The old All Quiet on the Western Front had a French sniper using a scoped Mauser 98 to kill Paul. Why should this image be an exception?

    I suspect the scope mount is G&H, but there were numerous aftermarket scope mounts in the '30s-'50s and without seeing the mount, we can't tell. I do agree with the scope though as only the British and the Russians (OK, that suck Weaver M73 and the Leupold Alaskan) had turrets for adjusting for windage and elevation. The Germans and Japanese scopes lacked these features.

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