Third Party Press

What rifle and scope is this?

B

Blackpowderresearcher

Well-known member
This is from the collection of the Imperial War Museum. To me it appears to be a sporterised K98. The receiver has a thumbcut for the stripper clip. Additionally there is no external magazine like that on the Ross or SMLE.

I'd like to have the perspective of the experts from this board.
 

Attachments

  • Seaforth Highlander sniper, 15th-Scottish Division -Uelzen-16-April-1945..jpg
    Seaforth Highlander sniper, 15th-Scottish Division -Uelzen-16-April-1945..jpg
    87 KB · Views: 212
What makes you think it could be a sportered military rifle? Even back then enough hunting rifles were around and I'd almost bet this is one of these rifles.
 
Kcode98 said:
Mauser commercial hunting rifle turned into a "sniper rifle" by a German soldier is my guess.
Click to expand...

Once again: why should a soldier turn it into a "sniper rifle"? At that time it was nothing uncommon that a hunting rifle has a scope. Additionally that scope is not military, neither is the scope mount, so where would a soldier be getting a commercial scope and a commercial mount and have these fitted to a commercial rifle himself? This doesn't make any sense at all. It is just a commercial hunting rifle which made its way into the hands of British soldiers, nothing more or less.
 
Absolut said:
Once again: why should a soldier turn it into a "sniper rifle"? At that time it was nothing uncommon that a hunting rifle has a scope. Additionally that scope is not military, neither is the scope mount, so where would a soldier be getting a commercial scope and a commercial mount and have these fitted to a commercial rifle himself? This doesn't make any sense at all. It is just a commercial hunting rifle which made its way into the hands of British soldiers, nothing more or less.
Click to expand...

I meant he turned it into a "sniper rifle" by using it, not by modifying it. I do believe by the reaction of the soldiers that a German soldier was using it as a weapon.
 
Kcode98 said:
I meant he turned it into a "sniper rifle" by using it, not by modifying it. I do believe by the reaction of the soldiers that a German soldier was using it as a weapon.
Click to expand...

Wait, what? I can’t see any reaction that says a German soldier used it. Lol. I mean a hunting rifle confiscated from a civilian and being played with by British troops is the most logical explanation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Very early in the war the german government requested donations of scoped hunting rifles for sniper use.
 
mrfarb said:
Wait, what? I can’t see any reaction that says a German soldier used it. Lol. I mean a hunting rifle confiscated from a civilian and being played with by British troops is the most logical explanation.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

GEM said:
Very early in the war the german government requested donations of scoped hunting rifles for sniper use.
Click to expand...
Where does this information come from? Any documents?

Thanks
 
mrfarb said:
Wait, what? I can’t see any reaction that says a German soldier used it. Lol. I mean a hunting rifle confiscated from a civilian and being played with by British troops is the most logical explanation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I cannot imagine allied soldiers taking a civilian rifle from civilians and making enough deal of it to gather around talking about it and someone thinking it was important enough to take pictures. I'd imagine it was a civilian scoped rifle used by a German marksman that was eventually taken out and the rifle is being looked over. Just my opinion though.
 
Blackpowderresearcher said:
This is from the collection of the Imperial War Museum. To me it appears to be a sporterised K98. The receiver has a thumbcut for the stripper clip. Additionally there is no external magazine like that on the Ross or SMLE.

I'd like to have the perspective of the experts from this board.
Click to expand...


In regards to what scope is on the Rifle IMHO it appears the mostly likely candidate is Zeiss Zielacht 8X . I would also point out that 8X Scopes were not accepted by Heer 6X was Maximum Magnification accepted

I have seen many period photo of German Soldiers with such Civilian Hunting type Scoped Rifles so why is it so hard to believe this is nothing more than a Confiscated Civilian Hunting Rifle ??? Firearms were confiscated from the Civilian Populous by the Liberating Forces and many civilians were hunters and had Scoped Rifles and a Scoped Rifle would be great addition to any platoon .
 
Last edited:
Absolut said:
Once again: why should a soldier turn it into a "sniper rifle"? At that time it was nothing uncommon that a hunting rifle has a scope. Additionally that scope is not military, neither is the scope mount, so where would a soldier be getting a commercial scope and a commercial mount and have these fitted to a commercial rifle himself? This doesn't make any sense at all. It is just a commercial hunting rifle which made its way into the hands of British soldiers, nothing more or less.
Click to expand...
+1. There were a lot of commercial made hunting rifles made in the 1930's by a number of well respected British, German and Austrian gunsmiths. These are typically very well made rifles. Based on the front sight of the rifle in the picture, I'd say that's what it is.

GEM said:
Very early in the war the german government requested donations of scoped hunting rifles for sniper use.
Click to expand...
It was not early war but mid war, 1942 time frame. And they didn't want rifles, they purchased specific rifles scopes from the civilian population, not just any scope. It is referred to as the Jagerspende Program.
 
I have a friend that has a German sporter made between the wars. It is not an 8x57 but 8.15x46R I think. The bore was .318 so he had to size bullets down to be able to reload, this was some years ago. I would think that trying to use a Civilian rifle would be complicated by not being able to obtain ammo since there were several other types.

I would bet it is a nice sporter that was picked up out of a pile of weapons that the locals surrendered. We all have seen pics of these civilian surrendered weapons.
 
I had a CZ commercial Mauser 98 Small Ring rifle in Stutzen configuration in 8x57 IS caliber that was commercially proofed in 1943 which still has had a Zeiss Zielacht scope fitted with Suhler Claw Mount. And I still have a Germania Waffenwerke AG Mauser 98 Large Ring action sporter (without scope, but highly engraved) in 7x64 caliber which if I remember correctly was commercially proofed in 1942. Despite of war hunting rifles were still made, both with and without scopes and in various calibers.
 
Man I’d love to see that Model 21, I’ve been looking for a wartime rifle, they are difficult to find. Agreed on the .318, used all the way through the war and beyond on the commercial side. This rifle below is the latest I have, Oct 1943, but rifles were certainly still made all the way through 1945. Even Oberndorf still built a handful in 1945, 1944 was a couple hundred and the numbers go up the earlier you look naturally.
 

Attachments

  • E352F1B4-76F2-42E5-B9CD-9A803D0BDA35.jpg
    E352F1B4-76F2-42E5-B9CD-9A803D0BDA35.jpg
    388.9 KB · Views: 57
Years ago I knew a collector now dead who had been in the British Army and zone of occupation during and after the war. He mentioned that there was a large store of confiscated or surrendered civilian weapons in his area and that for about five shillings each soldiers, or perhaps it was just officers, could buy whatever they wanted from this collection. He didn't say and I didn't think to ask what the ultimate fate of this collection was. This may have been a purely local phenomenon or a wider policy.

The photo looks like a staged one: just soldiers messing around during a lull.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top