Third Party Press

Abnehmbarer Lauf Detachable Barrel 98

RyanE said:
Zoom in on the receiver serial number in the pics I posted. Look how sloppily the serial suffix appears to be stamped. I am almost certain it's a total fake made to replicate the one in BBOTW (same one Bruce posted). It has a close SN and probably the same letter block, both of which are probably fake. Not enough detail to say much about the FP but it looks odd also.

As you say, better pics would tell the tale, but I bet I'm right.
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Yeah, they are pretty bad, and almost looked etched or pantographed and not stamped...I am definitely thinking fake, but as you say decent pics would be the key to making a better call...and looking at the zoomed in pics, that metal work is pretty piss poor...
 
Sebastian21 said:
I think the only way you can make a interrupted thread woul be to fit a barrel, headspace it, index it, then mill out the area between the threads. The barrel would not be too hard but the receiver would take some skill.
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You'd additionally have to re-shape the threads to allow it to be tightened with your hands. Enough to allow this, but also not too much that it can be overindexed. It might not be the toughest job for someone knowing what he's doing, but surely something not all gunsmiths would be able to do nowadays.
 
Couldn’t you just chuck up the receiver in a vice and run a chaser / tapping die into the original threads to do that? Just opening up the original threads doesn’t seem like a complex task for a moderately skilled machinist / gunsmith.
 
Absolut said:
You'd additionally have to re-shape the threads to allow it to be tightened with your hands. Enough to allow this, but also not too much that it can be overindexed. It might not be the toughest job for someone knowing what he's doing, but surely something not all gunsmiths would be able to do nowadays.
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Screwing a barrel on by hand does not require much effort until it makes contact with the receiver and then you will have to torque on it to keep it from coming loose. In this case that is not required since the two plates added to the stock act as a lock keeping the barrel in place and properly indexed. You would have to remove a slight bit of metal from the barrel shoulder to allow the barrel to be screwed in place with the torque at minimal level that it could be removed by hand. That would be time consuming by hand but not difficult for someone with some skill.

I have a buddy that is a self taught machinist that could easily do this in his garage and it would look a hell of a lot better going by what work of his I have seen.
 
Very simple stuff from a machining standpoint. Interrupted threads are common in all types of industry, and well documented in various 'how-to' machinist trade books. If one had a shaper (or vertical slotter) and a milling machine, it would be very straight forward. Lots of hand fitting would definitely be involved.

The harder bits to fake would be the stock plates, locking lever and stock machining.

The really hard part is getting all that together so as to represent it as done by skilled 1940's German craftsmen in a well-equipped prototype shop such as Oberndorf. This is what appears to be lacking with the subject rifle.
 
Absolut said:
You'd additionally have to re-shape the threads to allow it to be tightened with your hands. Enough to allow this, but also not too much that it can be overindexed. It might not be the toughest job for someone knowing what he's doing, but surely something not all gunsmiths would be able to do nowadays.
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I'm not sure how the tightening torque can be applied anyways. Usually, the barrel is floating and not attached to the front stock at all. The only way to transfer torque other than through firm grip around the barrel would be through the half ring holding the upper hand guard in front of the rear sight. If the barrel is torqued by twisting the front stock, the half ring will dig into the soft wood. So, that can't be it.
What method is used to torque the barrel and what contraption keeps it from rotating within the front stock?
 
The amount of torque required to index a K98k is different. Gustloff barrels are usually extremely tight compared to others. The threading however will need to be modified so that the amount of torque that can be applied by someones hand is enough to index the barrel, yet not too light so that it can't be overindexed. The original rifles at Royal Pattern Room have additional stopping pins to outrule overindexing the barrel.

Second problem is what GunKraut mentioned. The barrel has to be additionally affixed to the front stock. It would had been highly interesting to see how this is solved with the rifles at Royal Pattern Room. This however would had required to have the front stock removed from the barrel. It looks as if the two small screws on the metal plate are wood screws and therefore affixed to the front stock end. On the other hand therefore the pin where the lever itself is affixed to then would not need to last on to the opposite side additionally. And finally this doesn't solve the mystery on how the mechanism it affixed to the barrel. It is my personal guess that maybe they drilled holes to the rear sight base or had a modified rear sight base which is connected with the locking mechanism.
 
My bet is this was one of the "exotic" K98ks on Gunbonker maybe 10 years back that we were clowning here. It's been bobbing around like a turd in the surf looking for a beach to wash up on. Perhaps it washed up on a couple beaches since then and was tossed back into the water. There was this one (or its twin made by the same humper), a side folding stock, and a "bakelite stock". All of these were listed for high dollar (five figures) on Gunbonker and were laughable to someone with knowledge, but would probably fascinate the standard funshow table fly whose research and learning did not extend past a copy of BOTW. The trick is finding someone ignorant but also with deep pockets. Those people didn't earn that money, they inherited it or came into it as a matter of luck (e.g., lottery or Saudi prince). It's hard to find that person at a funshow between the distractions of getting your glasses cleaned, knife sharpened, sampling deer jerky, and shopping Hellfire cranks for 10/22s. So it winds up on Gunbonker with carnival barking. The problem there is it gets on our radar screen and becomes the source of amusing ridicule such that it is forever tainted.

As set forth, I see nothing about this thing beyond the skill of a decent (not great) machinist and gunsmith. A truly excellent machinist and gunsmith could really turn out something interesting, which is not the case here. Again, I would fire this, but tied to a tire with a lanyard from behind a tree about 20 feet away.
 
Absolut said:
The amount of torque required to index a K98k is different. Gustloff barrels are usually extremely tight compared to others. The threading however will need to be modified so that the amount of torque that can be applied by someones hand is enough to index the barrel, yet not too light so that it can't be overindexed. The original rifles at Royal Pattern Room have additional stopping pins to outrule overindexing the barrel.
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You would not alter the threads, that would screw everything up. Only the shoulder of the barrel being relieved to make it stop at TDC with just the right amount of tension that it can be removed again by hand. The amount that needs to be removed is miniscule. Anyone that has ever put a new barrel on a rifle can can attest to that. The plates on the stock is what locks it in the indexed position. Look at pic number one of the real one. The locking slot keeps it at the correct indexed position. Done correctly you would not need to attach the barrel to the stock in anyway. The barrel bands would keep everything in place while being transported. Once the barrel is rotated into the receiver and locked in place by the lever its good to go. There is no voodoo magic here.
 
mto7464 said:
You would not alter the threads, that would screw everything up. Only the shoulder of the barrel being relieved to make it stop at TDC with just the right amount of tension that it can be removed again by hand. The amount that needs to be removed is miniscule. Anyone that has ever put a new barrel on a rifle can can attest to that. The plates on the stock is what locks it in the indexed position. Look at pic number one of the real one. The locking slot keeps it at the correct indexed position. Done correctly you would not need to attach the barrel to the stock in anyway. The barrel bands would keep everything in place while being transported. Once the barrel is rotated into the receiver and locked in place by the lever its good to go. There is no voodoo magic here.
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Except, the lever only keeps the stock from rotating. The only thing keeping the barrel from unscrewing after a couple rounds is the rear sight hand guard lip.
 
GunKraut said:
Except, the lever only keeps the stock from rotating. The only thing keeping the barrel from unscrewing after a couple rounds is the rear sight hand guard lip.
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Nope! Look at the pics. The locking lug is milled into the shoulder of the barrel as well as the receiver. (almost like a key on an electric motor shaft)
No movement can occur. Look at pics 1 and 3.
 
mto7464 said:
Nope! Look at the pics. The locking lug is milled into the shoulder of the barrel as well as the receiver. (almost like a key on an electric motor shaft)
No movement can occur. Look at pics 1 and 3.
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I stand corrected. It is actually shown keyed in the pictures you mentioned. I had in mind the B/W picture of the soldier holding the separated rifle parts and it only shows a locking hole in the stock's face plate, not slotted all way up into the receiver.
 
Did it work
 

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very crude work compared to a German wartime made on. Still a neat reproduction. Since no one will likely ever get to own a real one, this is the next best thing. I would shot if I got to look at it and felt it was safe.
 
Hambone said:
My bet is this was one of the "exotic" K98ks on Gunbonker maybe 10 years back that we were clowning here. It's been bobbing around like a turd in the surf looking for a beach to wash up on. Perhaps it washed up on a couple beaches since then and was tossed back into the water. There was this one (or its twin made by the same humper), a side folding stock, and a "bakelite stock". All of these were listed for high dollar (five figures) on Gunbonker and were laughable to someone with knowledge, but would probably fascinate the standard funshow table fly whose research and learning did not extend past a copy of BOTW. The trick is finding someone ignorant but also with deep pockets. Those people didn't earn that money, they inherited it or came into it as a matter of luck (e.g., lottery or Saudi prince). It's hard to find that person at a funshow between the distractions of getting your glasses cleaned, knife sharpened, sampling deer jerky, and shopping Hellfire cranks for 10/22s. So it winds up on Gunbonker with carnival barking. The problem there is it gets on our radar screen and becomes the source of amusing ridicule such that it is forever tainted.

As set forth, I see nothing about this thing beyond the skill of a decent (not great) machinist and gunsmith. A truly excellent machinist and gunsmith could really turn out something interesting, which is not the case here. Again, I would fire this, but tied to a tire with a lanyard from behind a tree about 20 feet away.
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The Sturgess Collection contained some real whoppers. At least, back in the day the information was not at one's fingertips as it is today and books were incomplete and/or erroneous. The combination of this and Geoffrey Sturgess' honestly earned fortune resulted in a large collection of diamonds and cubic zirconia.
 
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Sebastian21 said:
Did it work
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These three photos tell me the gun is fake. Look at that poor metal fitting work, evidence of a rough bastard file, what looks like home bluing. This is the work of a machinist looking to get something done, not of a craftsman that worked with guns on a daily basis.
 
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