Third Party Press

WTF IS Going On

DaveDavis

Senior Member
The increasingly insane opening asking prices on GUNBROKER are leaving me scratching my head.

The market, IMHO, can not support the prices being asked.

Who in the Hell wants a dirt common byf 44 for $3,000.00 plus dollars.

So when does it all crash and burn.

There are limits to how much any sane person will pay for a common rifle.

I hope the greedy, idiot, sellers wake up as weeks pass and no one bids on these over priced, precious jewels.
 
Its not just GunBroker. One here sold for right around $2,500 a week or so ago IIRC.

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The increasingly insane opening asking prices on GUNBROKER are leaving me scratching my head.

The market, IMHO, can not support the prices being asked.

Who in the Hell wants a dirt common byf 44 for $3,000.00 plus dollars.

So when does it all crash and burn.

There are limits to how much any sane person will pay for a common rifle.

I hope the greedy, idiot, sellers wake up as weeks pass and no one bids on these over priced, precious jewels.

I don't know what's going on Dave I still remember paying Hugh Brock $2,500 for his ax 1940 and that was at the SOS show in 2016.
 
They will only sell for what someone is willing to pay. I’m not sure how many actually sell for the high asking prices.
 
Been browsing myself Dave. Have noticed R/C prices seem to be asking the moon too. Some at $800 but also some at 0 bids so far.
 
Lots of guns on the market at gunbroker, and none appear to be moving.

That seems to me a good sign.

When prices exceed what customers are willing to pay, a correction is badly needed, or younger guys will find somewhere else to spend their money, and I do not see the large influx of younger collectors that are needed to keep the hobby viable.

I remember when lugers were so damned hot, that was until the greed killed the market.
 
Yeah not just mausers. Like to check the prices on other guns I own like my S&W CS-9. Worth maybe $400 around an LGS near where I live but often priced close to $600 on Gunbroker.
 
All simply my opinions of course: I think what is going on is that we have succeeded in making K98k collecting a hobby that makes people on the periphery, with money to spend, trust its integrity and long term viability and stability from an investment standpoint. K98ks are cool too. They want in, and they have money. We have essentially won with respect to humping. There will always be fakery in any hobby with money involved, but there is no reason to get hosed in K98k collecting if one simply studies a bit, invests in The Books, spends a little time, and participates here. Our hobby is trusted and has long term viability in the eyes of those with much money to spend. We aren't a bunch of old guys, there are 20 and 30 somethings involved and getting involved. When faced with a mystery or odd circumstance requiring an answer always look to the money.

It's interesting but there are more than a few of us here, several moderators, who have been suspended and banned from WAF for supporting the same ideals that make this site and hobby excellent and thus, popular. IMHO, it appears that the opposite is going on in German helmet collecting, and some are blaming "the economy." K98k buyers are in the same economy the last I checked. This is an interesting discussion, contrasting with what we are experiencing. Seems like more navel gazing than hard truth, though some are getting close to nailing the problems:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1025247

Some of them noted that German helmet collecting got a big black eye with the "Champagne Rune" fraud. However, had they functioned as we do that should have been exposed over 10 years ago. This is how a few fellows trying to call out the Champagne Rune and questioning it were treated at the WAF helmet forum. IMHO, this provides some insight into the mentality which has caused them the problems that we are not having, which explains the growth, interest, and rising prices we are seeing in K98k collecting:

waf champagne rune.jpg
 
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Also, apart from my post above, I think much of what we are seeing is dealer/seller games being played and price manipulation. Listing prices, even auction prices, sometimes belie the truth or the real overall market. Our hobby is quite robust and healthy, but don't start believing that a byf 44 is $3000 ;)
 
The "completed items" search on Gunbroker seems to tell a different story...When I searched it and sorted by highest prices first, the majority of rifles above $3000 had ended on no bids. The majority of rifles that actually sold happened below $2k (granted I'm sure some of them were less than their descriptions said, but it still paints the picture that the market is willing to pay <$2000 for what it THINKs is a decent matching k98k). Perhaps other evidence proves me wrong, certainly some very expensive rifles have recently sold on our own trader and more power to the buyer/seller for that.

Maybe it's the same story, just much less drastic. I've begun not to trust my own instinct on this since I can't tell how many shill-bid or no-bid completed auctions I was factoring into it. Just looking at our own trader though, yeah prices have risen. I am patiently awaiting capt14k's predictions about the milsurp market to come true because I'd be able to buy a lot more rifles. I think what's happening is the spread is widening - bids are still what they were, reasonable, maybe $1500 for a byf44, but asks are following a trend that the bids won't keep up with. It is up to private sellers and dealers to realize that a wide spread means no transactions.

Edit: AKA this:
Also, apart from my post above, I think much of what we are seeing is dealer/seller games being played and price manipulation. Listing prices, even auction prices, sometimes belie the truth or the real overall market. Our hobby is quite robust and healthy, but don't start believing that a byf 44 is $3000 ;)
 
I would agree with almost all of that. I've certainly paid into the $2500 range for a nice matching K98k code/date that I needed, or something exceptionally nice. In the last year I've also paid less than that. Unmessed with high quality is going to bring to the high end. There isn't much of that on Gunbonker, yet the Gunbonker asking prices certainly are at the high end.

In short, if we graphed it over the last 10 years the trend would be moving higher overall, at a healthy rate. The overall trend is not that crazy and those outliers shouldn't manipulate reality.
 
I would agree with almost all of that. I've certainly paid into the $2500 range for a nice matching K98k code/date that I needed, or something exceptionally nice.

Definitely, I agree and only meant to comment on common ones like byf44. I've bought two semi-KMs this year and paid 2500 for one and above 3k for the other, because I have a soft spot for them and they're often raw. The 2500 one I waited for a month or two and the dealer was more desperate to sell so I talked him down a few hundred, and the >3k one was in amazing condition and came with a sling. I don't know if they'll hold this value, but I don't intend to sell them until I'm very old so it was never the biggest factor.
 
Looking through GB at the ridiculous starting bids on many of the guns currently listed makes me hope that they sit unsold until sanity returns.

RCs with $800.00 + starting is just crazy.

Common 1944 dated guns at $2800.00 + just reeks of greed, avarice, and stupid.

I hope this is a bubble that pops, and soon.

Do I hope to be able to sell my collection for more than I paid for it ????

Sure, but Hogs get slaughtered, while Pigs get fed, as my Grand Father was fond of saying.

There are some Gun Hogs, IMHO, who really need to get slaughtered.
 
I saw this on the SKS board when i was an avid collector there. the hobby went from caring about manufacturing styles and variants to what is the latest sale on Gunbroker.. It eventually all came crashing down. The board itself died out as the main board members died themselves, moved on to face book or lost interest overall. As the board and community of collectors vanished, the prices did with it.

another issue, unlike the book, was the lack of available documentation with the russian sks although the board had a few contacts into russia.

I myself lost interest when it stopped being about the hunt and just being whoever had the biggest wallet could have the nicest collection.

That board now attracts few posts, the for sale area is dead. My more rare SKSs that were selling as high as $1500-$2,000 are now worth about $900-$1000.. Lucky for me, All of the ones i bought were in the $400-$800 range. .

I agree with Hambone. The hobby will stay alive as long as this board lives. New members and how we welcome them make a difference.

I started to hang out on the 1911 board. I ran into some arrogance and condescending answers to my newb questions and other posts I saw. It was just "too hard" to learn and break in.... I lost interest learning about 1911s and found my way here...

it could have been my experience only but I don't see that here and it's something we need to be careful of. I see a lot more help here to new people wanting to by their first K98.
 
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I agree with Hambone. The hobby will stay alive as long as this board lives. New members and how we welcome them make a difference.

I started to hang out on the 1911 board. I ran into some arrogance and condescending answers to my newb questions and other posts I saw. It was just "too hard" to learn and break in.... I lost interest learning about 1911s and found my way here...

it could have been my experience only but I don't see that here and it's something we need to be careful of. I see a lot more help here to new people wanting to by their first K98.

Yes, 100% spot on. How a novice is treated makes all the difference in the hobby continuing to exist and grow.....

And helping the new folks avoid being scammed / over paying is a group responsibility.
 
I admit I just paid $850 for a RC, but it was a BSW....and we know how hard BSWs are to find. This one even had a BSW stock.

t
 

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I think the focus needs to be put on each individual sale and rifle. Grouping all byf44's together would be wrong.. The trends I'm seeing in all militaria collecting is Guys are after untouched original high end condition stuff.. That's what sells and brings top dollar across the boards. Guys Like FJM44 continue to peddle the best and don't offend like Lux or other uber dealers pre98 comes to mind also.. But, as long as the buyers line up to buy they will continue to push the pricing envelope.
Collectors want to collect and many change what they want after collecting one thing for many years. I have seen it many times.. Price paid is always subjective due to the fact of someone's net worth.. 1,000 bucks to me is like 100 to them...

Heck three morons in Florida just spent over 100K for a banana duct taped to a board !!! So lighten up on the 2300.00 $ byf44 sold here... My 2 cents. :thumbsup:
 
The increasingly insane opening asking prices on GUNBROKER are leaving me scratching my head.

The market, IMHO, can not support the prices being asked.

Who in the Hell wants a dirt common byf 44 for $3,000.00 plus dollars.

So when does it all crash and burn.

There are limits to how much any sane person will pay for a common rifle.

I hope the greedy, idiot, sellers wake up as weeks pass and no one bids on these over priced, precious jewels.

Sup guys, I just came over here from gunboards forum. First ever post 👍🏽👍🏽

I’ve been browsing GUNBROKER for weeks now. I’m looking to buy my first ever all matching K98K but like OP mentioned, the prices I’m seeing are pretty discouraging. I’m but a boy (29), I guess I didn’t realize this was a rich mans sport! Haha.

I think I’ve refreshed the gunbroker search 10,000 times the last two weeks. Anyone know how many posts one needs before I’m able to access the trader section? Hope everyone is having a great Monday.
 
The whole thing is a sticky subject...

While I 100% agree with the free market, and in my heart and mind know that one is free to ask whatever price they want for any item they choose to sell, but it also doesn't mean I can't think they are a money grubbing douchebag while doing it...

But where the rubber really meets the road, and things kind of go around the bend for me is when certain high end dealers, who 100% KNOW what they are doing and looking at sell HUMPED pieces with crazy high non-humped prices...

Dealers (who I won't mention) have had items called out here, and when messaged about it basically say "thanks for the info" and don't do anything to rectify the situation...now we are getting into the area of fraud...unfortunately, as also pointed out by learned members (and members of the bar here) fraud is so difficult to prove, not much can be done except calling them out. Like a Supreme Court Justice once said, I may not be able to define pornography, but I know it when I see it. And to add, like fruit from the poisonous tree, to me, it calls for a huge caveat emptor and calls everything they sell into question, and worthy of extra scrutiny of contemplating buying...

As far as the pricing goes, as has been discussed, asking crazy prices, and having someone actually pay them does in the long run hurt the collecting community. Now some Joe Bubba Tard surfing the internet sees some 98k (he doesn't know the difference) sold for $12,000, and the lightbulb goes off, and he grabs granpappies war rifle from the closet, hauls it out in all its chopped to a Remchester look a like glory, slings it over his shoulder and drags it to the show asking $6000 for it, and won't consider a penny less, and accuses you of being a crook for telling him its worth $400...

I just recently made the hard decision to part with one of mine, and put it on here...pricing it was sort of difficult. I think its a solid rifle, possibly a rescued sporter, as all the metal (save bands) matched, but stock is correct, and numbered in pencil in the channel. Handguard does not match, and bands are un-numbered (incorrect for a dot 43, and not ground and refinished, but legit un-numbered stamped bands).

I wanted to be fair on pricing, but, damn, as also pointed out here, RC's have been selling at the $700-$850 price point, and this is way heads and shoulders above an RC, IMHO...I started it at $1150, dropped to $1075, and finally $975....a newer guy here pulled the trigger...and I am very happy its going to a newer guy, starting out. I think its a solid, good looking example, and I hope he will be very happy with it.

Again, with the pricing...I am not a gun seller...especially 98k's, I don't like selling them, and if I decide to its one of those things I am not so much willing to give away cheap, if that were the case, I'd just as soon hang on to it. Other guns I accumulate, and may like, but are not part of the core collection, I routinely will let go cheap when I need to.

As far as guys paying these exorbitant prices...well, again, mixed feelings...on one hand, good on ya, wish I were in that position. On the other hand, I have talked to people who know guys like these, who have been taken into their inner sanctums to see the collections....these guys open drawers and display cases to show them incredibly nice, incredibly rare examples of whatever...and don't know shite about them, just see them as an investment. That sort of pisses me off, because I have been collecting since I was 10 years old, and do it because I absolutely love what I collect, and always strive to learn everything I can about what I collect. Its a labor of love, and these guys who have more money than brains just buy super nice stuff for whatever it costs, and don't give two shits about what it is...just that it might make them money someday.

And one more thing I will say before ending this incredibly long ramble...and I discussed this with Mike one time...as fellow collectors, think about this. If you had all the money in the world, where prices were meaningless, you could go to someplace like Collectors Firearms, or Pre-98, and buy everything up without blinking an eye....would collecting be as fun? Would it be meaningful?

While its nice to dream about being able to do that, I have to say, I don't think it would be as fun...I think a lot of us see this as the fun is in the hunt, if there was no hunt, would it be fun?

I just picked up a Magazine Lee Metford a few weeks ago...been dreaming about finding one for a long time (one where I didn't have to lay out $2,500 to snag it, because, unfortunately for me $2500 is a shitload of money...:facepalm:)...and lo and behold, I stumbled on one (I need to get some good pics, I will post it up here at some point)...My heart skipped a beat, and I was all excited and giddy...if all I had to do was find one online, and push a button, I doubt it would have been as fun...

Anyway, I think some of this pricing is insane, and no, I don't really like it...but it is (for now) a capitalist free market system....
 
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What Pzjgr said. I'll add something that pisses me off: dealers who feed on the traders and auctions for the sole purpose of carnival barking and flipping things. They use all the free information we provide to do this and carnival bark. It's short term money grubbing that is basically like having someone drinking the free booze at the party, then shitting in the hot tub and leaving. It deprives collectors and new guys from getting a foot in the door.

Sup guys, I just came over here from gunboards forum. First ever post &#55357;&#56397;&#55356;&#57341;&#55357;&#56397;&#55356;&#57341;

I’ve been browsing GUNBROKER for weeks now. I’m looking to buy my first ever all matching K98K but like OP mentioned, the prices I’m seeing are pretty discouraging. I’m but a boy (29), I guess I didn’t realize this was a rich mans sport! Haha.

I think I’ve refreshed the gunbroker search 10,000 times the last two weeks. Anyone know how many posts one needs before I’m able to access the trader section? Hope everyone is having a great Monday.

Welcome BMS, I've bumped you to full access at the Trader, though all it takes is about 5 posts to be sure someone isn't a spammer. You're the guys we need taking this hobby over when us 50/60/70s start to reach room temp at some point. Don't get discouraged, be patient. Go to the pic sticky section here:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?45-Picture-Reference-Index

While you are looking, learning, and making friends in the hobby, nice rifles will turn up. Learn first, it's free. Buy The K98k Books. Rifles will turn up. A number of us have sold duplicates and spares here recently. They move quick so yo have to watch.
Cheers,
HB
 

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