Third Party Press

Price Setting is tricky....

In defense of new guys....

Yes, but several more have turned out to be good solid guys who have had very good transactions with me and others here. I'll take that ratio all day. In a properly functioning environment, shiteheads only get to be that way once.[/QUOTE

Thanks for that, Ham.

While I can understand the fear of new folks or those generally less knowledgeable & showing low message counts, neither characteristic is an accurate indicator of scumbagness. I have to say that I’m appalled at the number of scumbag misrepresenters I see peddling stuff on gunbroker. Scary where hard earned $ are involved.
 
It is extremely tricky. I posted regarding a similar topic on another forum, but the bottom line is the available inventory for rifles on the open market is just too limited. In a healthy market this creates a rise in prices.

I highly value the opinion of the more experienced collectors of these forums, but the value a dedicated collector puts on a rifle and what the open market has to offer are two different figures. Trying to find an original untouched rifle on the open internet market for what a dedicated collector would pay is near impossible. Inner circle, dedicated collector to dedicated collector pricing is completely different than the open market. Now, the open market is a dangerous place where cavaet emptor is the only law of the land. So if you don't know the difference between a $2,500 rifle and a $1,5000 rifle you may get burnt, but think about who actually visits auction sites? Yes, the dedicated collectors do but there's also everyone who is not dedicated, who doesn't really take an interest in the hobby. Perhaps a Wall Street fat cat who wants cool items to make themselves appear cool, or maybe a smaller collector who doesn't even know about the various forums. Maybe someone who grew up with their only exposure to social networking as MySpace/Facebook/Snapchat. Like it or not but forums are a primitive form of social networking. Those individuals only know the small pond they are swimming in even if it's murky and full of turds and could be the byproduct of a sewage treatment plant. They have no idea what is outside in the rest of the world. Alexa ranks GunBroker as a top 10K site, gunboards as a top 240K and this forum as a top ~1M site. There's just more variety of a visitor on those sites than you're going to get here.

Now the hand gun market, that's completely the opposite. You have less restamped / faked parts (sans Lugers and magazines) and you don't have the stock issues (sanding, treated, rescued due to sporterizing or poor storage, etc). The amount of inventory on hand guns on auction sites or even retail sites, for that matter, is extremely vast and constantly rotating. You still have to really hunt to find something at the price a dedicated collector will pay, but paying 10-15% over that isn't usually too difficult.
 
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Yes, but several more have turned out to be good solid guys who have had very good transactions with me and others here. I'll take that ratio all day. In a properly functioning environment, shiteheads only get to be that way once.[/QUOTE

Thanks for that, Ham.

While I can understand the fear of new folks or those generally less knowledgeable & showing low message counts, neither characteristic is an accurate indicator of scumbagness. I have to say that I’m appalled at the number of scumbag misrepresenters I see peddling stuff on gunbroker. Scary where hard earned $ are involved.

I agree with you. I was at a local gun show this last weekend here in my home town. There is a dealer there that I have gotten K98 parts from time to time. He is trying to unload his K98 collection. Well he had a byf 44 in the rack that he had sold so I asked him, "how much did you sell it for?" He didn't tell me the number, but he said quite a bit. I figure it was over $1000. The only thing that was matching was the barreled action, stock was Yugo, bands didn't match. So I suspect that the person that purchased it is less knowledgeable, but I bet the seller knew what that rifle really was worth.

IMO it's the uniformed buyers and the scumbag mispresenters selling stuff that they know are not good quality K98 mausers that raises the market sometimes.

I just wish the uniformed buyers would turn to places like this and learn at bit before they throw out the cash. But then again there are the buyers that have that big wad of cash, see a nice shiny rifle and say I got to have it even know it is a turd.

No different than seeing M/Mausers selling on gunbroker because they are shiny and all matching turds:barf:!

It is nice to see new people here ask questions and want to learn. Hopefully the majority of them are good people.
 
I’m afraid I may be one of racerlee’s ‘uninformed’, as in my case it was only after I had walked away from the dealer’s table w/the rifle in my hands that a senior member & moderator here stopped me & asked if he could look at it. He introduced himself & told me about the K98k forum.
It has been VERY interesting reading & looking at all the great pics.......
 
There is a Mitchell duv42 ZF41 on GunBroker now, bolt in the white, "collector grade." Scope is a reproduction. Auction is at $1225 with 6 days still to go. I've bought about eight or guns from these guys the over the years, and they have been good people. This is a case of "caveat emptor," they drop enough clues for the knowledgeable to know what it is, but don't outright say what it is. Maybe its the Yugp package deal that has the newbies chasing this....sling, bayonet, oiler, pouch, cleaning kit, etc.

My RC AR42 ZF41 and original scope cost that much three years ago.

t
 
So if you can't own 20 of them...they want 1 or 2 killers.

I'm one of those newbies you're referring to, and I can say you're right on that analysis. For those of us who can't afford a large collection, getting quality over quantity is the next best thing we can do. I'm just glad I found out about this place and the books before getting burned by some scalper out there; I don't think I've met a nicer and more well-informed group of people when it comes to things like this.
 
Been lots of conversation re: high priced K98s on GB or dealer sites. I present a hypothetical case.... Jack recently showed his beautiful svw 45 K98. If he wanted to sell....what price should he ask? Here's the rifle... http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?38764-SVW-45-b-block-phosphate

Let's consider the demand to buy this rifle.... at various price points...

Price ........ Folks willing to buy.....

  • $1500 ....... 100 buyers
  • $2000 ....... 100 buyers
  • $2500 ....... 50 buyers
  • $3000 ....... 10 buyers
  • $3500 ....... 2 buyers
  • $3800 ....... 1 buyer
  • $4100 ....... 1 buyer (after 3 months)
  • $4500 ....... 1 buyer (after 6 months)

If placed on GB... what BIN should he ask?

The only change I would make would be at the $1500 price point...I think there would be 500+ buyers at that point hoping to flip at the next couple levels....As to the rifle he chose as to pricing, it would depend on a few variables...How much invested, how much the person "liked" the rifle as in if it fits the persons collection and so forth, and how bad does the person need to sell due to economic circumstances... If it were mine and purchased at the entry point of 1500 and need to move quick...Probably 2350-2500, and not turn down any offer close to the 2350...If I didn't need sell right away...2500-2750....Shooting the moon.... $3500....A lot of variables go into pricing a rifle...And at least for me anyway, $2000 buys a LOT of cool stuff.....LOL
 
I’m afraid I may be one of racerlee’s ‘uninformed’, as in my case it was only after I had walked away from the dealer’s table w/the rifle in my hands that a senior member & moderator here stopped me & asked if he could look at it. He introduced himself & told me about the K98k forum.
It has been VERY interesting reading & looking at all the great pics.......

Oh I'm sure there are plenty of people that are uninformed on their first purchases. I just think if someone is going to go big on a rifle, they should study up a little bit.

I just hate seeing the buyers out there getting screwed over by dealers pedaling stuff that they know are not good rifles. But know look at the prices of k98s these days, the keep going up. Why is that?

What's driving the market?
 
It’s happening all over GB guys. I had a very high max bid on a LNIB older little Beretta .32, but it sold for over $1,100. That’s just insane money for what it was. Buyer was a “collector” (read more money than sense) from the Seattle area. His track record shows dozens of similar purchases to get what he wants. No matter what you bid, forget it, he outbids everybody no matter the cost. Now, it’s his money and he can spend it any way he wants, but it’s quite frustrating. He’s not selling at those inflated prices, at least that I’m aware of, but he damn sure is raising prices.


KJ
 
It’s happening all over GB guys. I had a very high max bid on a LNIB older little Beretta .32, but it sold for over $1,100. That’s just insane money for what it was. Buyer was a “collector” (read more money than sense) from the Seattle area. His track record shows dozens of similar purchases to get what he wants. No matter what you bid, forget it, he outbids everybody no matter the cost. Now, it’s his money and he can spend it any way he wants, but it’s quite frustrating. He’s not selling at those inflated prices, at least that I’m aware of, but he damn sure is raising prices.


KJ

Seattle? Were you bidding against Bill Gates ? Good luck with that :thumbsup:
 
I have certainly been encouraged by the "Youngins" who contacted me about this and other rifles I have. The good news is that they can trust us "Seniors" due to the honesty and frankness of this forum. They respect us and for that they are willing to pay more. Given the prices...putting a big collection together is not easy anymore unless you have some good change available. So if you can't own 20 of them...they want 1 or 2 killers.
I agree with that, but because of prices you need 20 young collectors to buy 20 nice K98k. I just don't think there is enough of them out there. As more come to market supply will outpace demand.

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I have certainly been encouraged by the "Youngins" who contacted me about this and other rifles I have. The good news is that they can trust us "Seniors" due to the honesty and frankness of this forum. They respect us and for that they are willing to pay more. Given the prices...putting a big collection together is not easy anymore unless you have some good change available. So if you can't own 20 of them...they want 1 or 2 killers.

I'm definitely newer to K98k collecting and this is basically where I'm at, I can't own 20 of them but I'm not happy with put together rifles, sporter rescues, even bolt mismatches. I have one all matching CE 42 and I'm currently looking for a nice pre/early war K98k with a hardwood stock. I suppose eventually I'll want a late war example and maybe a bolt mismatch/shooter grade. Codes/manufacturers don't really matter to me because that's a rabbit hole I couldn't afford to go down even if I wanted to. Very happy to have found this forum and I enjoy learning about these rifles every day!
 
in my case it was only after I had walked away from the dealer’s table w/the rifle in my hands that a senior member & moderator here stopped me & asked if he could look at it.

You got pulled over at a gun show?? "I'm Sergeant Luftwaffles and I'm with the rifle police" :laugh:
 
Most collectors I know have 30-40 rifles, or as many as they can get. An increased supply will create new collectors. You (capt14k) are a doomsayer and have always espoused this way of thinking. You are wrong. The increased supply will push people into the hobby especially if prices decline. Those 1-2 gun dudes will buy 20 or 30. I for one hope prices do decline, I could use a hundred more rifles. I’m gonna start calling you out - “OK Doomer”.


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I agree with that, but because of prices you need 20 young collectors to buy 20 nice K98k. I just don't think there is enough of them out there. As more come to market supply will outpace demand.

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Ok Doomer.


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Most collectors I know have 30-40 rifles, or as many as they can get. An increased supply will create new collectors. You (capt14k) are a doomsayer and have always espoused this way of thinking. You are wrong. The increased supply will push people into the hobby especially if prices decline. Those 1-2 gun dudes will buy 20 or 30. I for one hope prices do decline, I could use a hundred more rifles. I’m gonna start calling you out - “OK Doomer”.


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Yes if supply outweighs demand prices will drop and then you will
get more collectors coming in. That is how corrections work. I've been through enough bubble bursts. Yes I have been saying it for 2 years but the peak for some Milsurps was Spring of 2017. I was caught on the wrong side of previous bubble bursts such as sportscards and dot com so maybe that is why I am extra cautious and negative, but when the housing bubble burst I was well positioned. I sold my last new construction house August 2008. Prior to that I had built 25 homes and flipped a dozen more, but I saw the writing on the wall in 2006 and didn't buy any more to flip and didn't buy anymore lots to build on.


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“You got pulled over at a gun show?? "I'm Sergeant Luftwaffles and I'm with the rifle police" :laugh:

Yup, busted! I’ll admit to being suspicious at first, but I learned something!
I think there may have been some discussion here about the sale of a deceased local collector’s stash. I tried to get more info from the seller, but he weren’t giving details.
 
Capt14k, I’ve been collecting K98ks since 1979 when I bought my first one, a mismatched bnz 44 big block for $185. It came with a MG.34 belt of 100 rounds. In those 40 years the desirability and prices have steadily climbed. As with all things, prices have fluctuated but a 10 year graph is up. With the sheer numbers of young (20-30 somethings) getting involved every year I don’t see demand waning. There are not a finite number of K98k collector licenses. That is, one of us doesn’t have to die to allow a spot for a new guy. Plus, no K98k collector owns just one. Unlike other Mausers, there are plenty of video games featuring the K98k and WW2. The integrity of the hobby is strong as well and the young guys in this with whom I’m friends are GTG to take over from us. I see no other firearm collecting hobby any stronger with a brighter future. Look to the money for confirmation of that.
 
Capt14k, I’ve been collecting K98ks since 1979 when I bought my first one, a mismatched bnz 44 big block for $185. It came with a MG.34 belt of 100 rounds. In those 40 years the desirability and prices have steadily climbed. As with all things, prices have fluctuated but a 10 year graph is up. With the sheer numbers of young (20-30 somethings) getting involved every year I don’t see demand waning. There are not a finite number of K98k collector licenses. That is, one of us doesn’t have to die to allow a spot for a new guy. Plus, no K98k collector owns just one. Unlike other Mausers, there are plenty of video games featuring the K98k and WW2. The integrity of the hobby is strong as well and the young guys in this with whom I’m friends are GTG to take over from us. I see no other firearm collecting hobby any stronger with a brighter future. Look to the money for confirmation of that.

Time will tell. One thing that I have noticed is all the forums are as slow as I have ever seen them. For instance there are 32 members online right now. Other forums even less. It seems the interest bump from video games like Battlefield 1 has quickly waned.


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