Third Party Press

OVT 44 K98k Canvas Action Cover Analysis

lilallie

Senior Member
Hi all, I have a canvas cover for a K98k I am not an accessories expert and I have never had one of these before.
I have had this for a long while, it looks correct to me but I know there are lots of post war items out there and fakes.

It does not really look like anything in the sticky as its not rubber covered or blue, closer to Ham's post but not the same year
from what I see.

like me, I'm sure lots of you have seen some bad fakes and repros.
This one as you can see from the pics really does not look like that.
Various sizes of leather tabs, and some are a little crispy.

Thanks



Steveo
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0019 (1).JPG
    IMG_0019 (1).JPG
    107 KB · Views: 72
  • IMG_0002 (1).JPG
    IMG_0002 (1).JPG
    117.9 KB · Views: 62
  • IMG_0001 (1).JPG
    IMG_0001 (1).JPG
    130.1 KB · Views: 44
  • IMG_0003 (1).JPG
    IMG_0003 (1).JPG
    123 KB · Views: 38
  • IMG_0021 (1).JPG
    IMG_0021 (1).JPG
    125.7 KB · Views: 39
  • IMG_0022 (1).JPG
    IMG_0022 (1).JPG
    112.8 KB · Views: 35
  • IMG_0023 (1).JPG
    IMG_0023 (1).JPG
    129.6 KB · Views: 34
  • IMG_0024.JPG
    IMG_0024.JPG
    121.1 KB · Views: 29
  • IMG_0026 (1).JPG
    IMG_0026 (1).JPG
    129.8 KB · Views: 32
  • IMG_0027.JPG
    IMG_0027.JPG
    124.8 KB · Views: 25
  • IMG_0004.JPG
    IMG_0004.JPG
    102.5 KB · Views: 24
  • IMG_0028 (1).JPG
    IMG_0028 (1).JPG
    154.9 KB · Views: 21
  • IMG_0029 (1).JPG
    IMG_0029 (1).JPG
    138 KB · Views: 19
  • IMG_0030.JPG
    IMG_0030.JPG
    133.8 KB · Views: 17
  • IMG_0031 (1).JPG
    IMG_0031 (1).JPG
    129.2 KB · Views: 17
Last edited by a moderator:
The http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?17363-Action-Covers-Kar-98kthread devoted to action covers:


Steveo, I was sent pics of one of these to review about a month ago. It was not all washed looking and what looks like intentional aging as on this example. I've not seen one I thought original dated later than 1942. On these "ovt 44" examples I don't like the thin thread, material, or construction. I don't see how the Wehrmacht decided, in 1944, to start devoting time, resources, and energy to an accessory that we don't see made after 1942. with canvas, some horsehair strips and leather a moderately talented seamstress could get a pattern and easily make these. Materials and labor maybe $20, maybe, if in Asia maybe $5-10. With a selling price of $350+? I'm going to need more convincing to believe these are original. I look forward to other opinions, proof, other examples. It may sound crazy, but have you put the black light to this one?
Cheers,
HB
 
Hi ham, thanks for gettin back.
No light.
Perhaps I could send this to ya? Look at it in your hand.
Thread shows a little different in the pics
 
Hi ham, thanks for gettin back.
No light.
Perhaps I could send this to ya? Look at it in your hand.
Thread shows a little different in the pics

Pm sent to ya ham.
 
I have a pair of these which I purchased back in the 1980s (when they came out of Norway and were sold by Globe Militaria). Both are in excellent condition. One is a blue web one which is marked on the leather flat in blue ink "gfg 1942" & "Mod. 98". The other is a greenish web one and is marked "ovt 44" & "Mod. 98" on the leather flat. The blue one is of heavier material, has leather reinforcements under the steel buttons, and is just more robust than the "ovt 44" example. On the other hand, the latter was likely produced by a different contractor. Considering when it was manufactured, it is not surprising the cover is more simplified and not to the same standard. At that time, these were very scarce prior to being released/imported, and no repros on the market until many years later (and poor ones at that). BTW color on the webbing is a uniform green...crappy lighting makes it look mottled in the photos. I cannot recall exactly what they were selling for when first offered by Globe, but I am pretty sure it was around $125.00-$150.00 each.
*Found several Kenneth Harffman mailing lists from 1987-1989. He showed two blue ones for sale (each on a different list) in '87 in excellent condition, for $275.00 & $325.00 respectively. This was likely a few years after they were no longer available from Globe.
 

Attachments

  • ovt44 1.JPG
    ovt44 1.JPG
    34.9 KB · Views: 42
  • ovt44 2.JPG
    ovt44 2.JPG
    37.6 KB · Views: 31
  • ovt44 3.JPG
    ovt44 3.JPG
    37.7 KB · Views: 27
  • ovt44 4.JPG
    ovt44 4.JPG
    40.5 KB · Views: 29
  • ovt44 5.JPG
    ovt44 5.JPG
    31.1 KB · Views: 26
  • ovt44 6.JPG
    ovt44 6.JPG
    32.3 KB · Views: 25
Last edited:
-pwcosol
Thanks.
Interesting info you shared.
Well, who knows Maybe it’s right,
Yours is the first I have seen that’s like mine and not dated 41 or before like Ham was sayin.
appreciate those pics.
Mine is actually the darker color than what my pics show, however the second pic
Of the close up of the leather shows
the canvas the color it actually is.
I have not had mine as long as you have, but it’s been a while.
Mine does not have the second piece of leather like yours mine has that area built up with canvas. The leather straps have black and brown like yours
I’ll try to get better light and pics posted tomorrow for everyone
So that this item can be better vetted
by collectors.

Steveo
 
Last edited:
Something else I forgot to mention...the material used for the green one has kind of a "spring" to it. It is similar to later German WW2 tunics and I think this is because there is a form of "Rayon" (synthetic fabric) incorporated into the material. The blue, earlier one has a tighter weave and is more canvass-like. When Globe had these, they were offered in blue ("Luftwaffe") or green ("Heer"), according to their advertisement. I think a few of the rubberized or "oil-skin" ones may have come in with them as well, but never saw one listed for sale in their flyers...
 
Last edited:
Ham or pwcosol or anybody assist with possible values for these
K98k action covers?

Thinkin about tradin or sellin the one I posted.

A PM is fine if anyone doesn't want to post.

Thanks.

Steveo
 
Pics added to show the color from a standard brightness setting on the camera.
 

Attachments

  • 91919AD2-73AC-4EA4-BF55-39E6F8904C21.jpg
    91919AD2-73AC-4EA4-BF55-39E6F8904C21.jpg
    382.8 KB · Views: 35
  • 21526128-0AAF-4FDC-B706-0D681C031660.jpg
    21526128-0AAF-4FDC-B706-0D681C031660.jpg
    396.9 KB · Views: 30
Ham or pwcosol or anybody assist with possible values for these
K98k action covers? Thinkin about tradin or sellin the one I posted. Thanks.
Steveo

IMHO, an authentic K98k action cover is probably in the $600. +/- range today. Value will vary based on the particular variant and condition. I do recall the green ones sometimes having very rusted steel buttons and patches of the felt having been eaten by insects, etc. The problem is the $24.95 canvass reproductions are readily available and many collectors may never have actually examined a real one. There are a couple pages with photos in Karabiner 98K, Vol. llb, with a general overview and description provided (the only web example pictured is a blue one). A few months ago I was watching some episodes of Victory at Sea and believe one titled "Mare Nostrum" showed film of German Afrika Corps troops disembarking from a transport ship. Two Soldats were seen coming down the gangplank with their Kar98ks strapped over their backs, with the rifle across their chests...each of which was equipped with a action cover in place. Cannot recall ever seeing any other footage of these elusive accessories...
 
Last edited:
Lilallie (Steveo) sent me the subject "ovt 44" action cover for examination. Big :thumbsup: to Steveo for doing this to advance knowledge and information. I've compared it to the two I own, the most commonly found, long accepted as originals, which are as follows: the green ("Heer") hkv 41; the blue ("Luftwaffe") jqh 42; and the subject reed green ovt 44:
IMG_3140.jpgIMG_3138.jpgIMG_3137.jpgIMG_3136.jpg

All three:

IMG_3130.jpgIMG_3131.jpgIMG_3132.jpgIMG_3134.jpg
 
First, let me start with what I like with the comparative examination:
1) The ovt 44 cover is fairly well made, with components that appear to be period correct, these include:
- the steel button studs look the same as those on the blue jqh 42; the studs on the earlier green hkv 41 are aluminum:
IMG_3147.jpg
- all use a stitched horsehair or boars' hair strip to seal off the cover at the fore-end:
IMG_3150.jpg
- the weave of the material is very close, though the ovt 44 material is clearly lighter weight and different:
IMG_3146.jpg
2) The use of straps of recycled material (black dyed sides) and the lighter more inferior material (consisting of more artificial materials, such as rayon) would be consistent with late war use.
IMG_3144.jpg
3) The ovt 44 (and the hkv and jqh) pass the uv / black light test for no modern synthetic construction.
4) The ovt 44 does not "smell" new, though it doesn't have the "old musty" smell of the hkv and jqh either.
5) The "story" behind the ovt 44 is that the old Globe Militaria found them in Norway and surplussed them. My hkv 41 was bought my me from Norway, and I believe many of the jqh 42s originated from there. However, the old Globe Militaria (which I remember from SGN days of my youth) also peddled a lot of reproduction items. And, this is just a story. I'll let Steveo elaborate.
 
Last edited:
What I don't like:

1) There is no known "ovt" code. It would be a late three letter code, but in all these years there is no listing of it. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but it doesn't help the argument in favor of the piece being original.
https://oldmilitarymarkings.com/codes_full_alpha_l-o.html

2) The stitching on the ovt is lighter, and all machine done, whereas the stitching on the others is thicker, primarily hand stitched. I don't care for the thread on the ovt, which is noticeably thinner. Machine stitching on modern machines in Eastern Europe, Pakistan, etc., is easy and cheap on an application like this. Hand stitching is not.
IMG_3146.jpg

3) The tanning and thickness on the leather reenforcement patch on the ovt is odd, looks modern, and the pad is thinner. It doesn't look right compared to the other two.
IMG_3134.jpg

4) The ovt is noticeably larger / longer at the fore-end, whereas the hkv and jqh are identical. Why the variation from spec? Note though that the hkv has a stitched cutout for the bolt handle whereas the jqh does not, so....
IMG_3150.jpg

5) The ovt lacks the leather reenforcement which would cover the rear action and stop the stud backing from scratching the rear receiver/bolt.
IMG_3134.jpg

6) I don't like the big honking "Mod. 98" and "ovt 44" stampings, which are large and different from the other two, which are smaller and ink stamps as well. Further, the other two bear the WaA inspections for the item. Granted, WaA inspections were being phased out by 1944 to get products out, but (which leads to the next issue)......
IMG_3137 - Copy.jpg

7) Why devote materials, manpower, and time to an action cover in 1944 when the need for war resources was critical? An action cover? When there are relatively many available as surplus? It is advanced that the action covers were for use in North Africa and sandy environments, which is assuredly a use for them. But how many period pics of them in use other than by troops headed for North Africa do you see? I am not aware of any. Garrison and static defense (bunkers) units in Norway needed them?

8) This is an easy and cheap item to reproduce by a factory in India, Pakistan, or Eastern Europe with some material cutters and seamstresses. With a pattern, this is a quick and easy thing to make. At $400, $300, even $150 a pop the profits would be pretty significant for an item that could be made for a fraction of that.
 
Last edited:
Conclusion:

Did Globe Militaria find a stash of these in Norway made up by a small manufacturer ("ovt") under some late war contract? Did Globe Militaria send an original off to Pakistan, Poland, the CR, etc., to have knocked off at $20 a pop to sell for $50, $100, $150 and import? I'm on the fence on these. Can I declare them bad? Nope. Would I pay $600+ for one like the hkv and jqh examples? Nope, not without more. Your comments and observations are invited.
 
Conclusion:

Did Globe Militaria find a stash of these in Norway made up by a small manufacturer ("ovt") under some late war contract? Did Globe Militaria send an original off to Pakistan, Poland, the CR, etc., to have knocked off at $20 a pop to sell for $50, $100, $150 and import? I'm on the fence on these. Can I declare them bad? Nope. Would I pay $600+ for one like the hkv and jqh examples? Nope, not without more. Your comments and observations are invited.

Excellent appraisal of the covers. Two things come to mind about the "ovt" examples. One is covers (of any make) were quite scarce. The only one I ever saw prior was a "oilskin" type, petrified on a K98k Warren Odegarde owned for years (and subsequently went, with the majority his rifle collection, to Mel Smith upon W.O.'s passing). To my recollection the batch of covers all turned up at the same time, and Globe was the only retail source offering them. This was in the early 1980s, and long before the plethora of reproductions prevalent on the market today (from Pakistan, India, & China) existed. If reproductions came from anywhere, it was typically Western Europe and geared towards daggers, knives, belt buckes, decorations, etc. Second, if the covers are bogus, with the amount of surplus Globe was importing from Europe at the time, why would they be looking to manufacture/sell bogus stuff right along side the real articles...and at the exact time authentic ones became available? Lastly, if the "ovt" variants were known to be reproductions, isn't it funny when they all disappeared into collector hands (other than guys selling one or two spares off when the price went up), there never was any other single source for additional covers to hit the market...it all pretty much stopped when the initial source ran dry.
 
Last edited:
Excellent appraisal of the covers. Two things come to mind about the "ovt" examples. One is covers (of any make) were quite scarce. The only one I ever saw prior was a "oilskin" type, petrified on a K98k Warren Odegarde owned for years (and subsequently went, with the majority his rifle collection, to Mel Smith upon W.O.'s passing). To my recollection the batch of covers all turned up at the same time, and Globe was the only retail source offering them. This was in the early 1980s, and long before the plethora of reproductions prevalent on the market today (from Pakistan, India, & China) existed. If reproductions came from anywhere, it was typically Western Europe and geared towards daggers, knives, belt buckes, decorations, etc. Second, if the covers are bogus, with the amount of surplus Globe was importing from Europe at the time, why would they be looking to manufacture/sell bogus stuff right along side the real articles...and at the exact time authentic ones became available? Lastly, if the "ovt" variants were known to be reproductions, isn't it funny when they all disappeared into collector hands (other than guys selling one or two spares off when the price went up), there never was any other single source for additional covers to hit the market...it all pretty much stopped when the initial source ran dry.

Well put and part of the back story on these that needs telling. The blue jkh 42 covers are prevalent as far as these go. The green hkv 41, not so much, and the "oilskin" the harder of the three. I'd like a nice oilskin one. My issues with the ovt are as stated. If it was an easy call or I could give a definitive conclusion I would based upon construction alone. If the threads fluoresced under black light as synthetic, or we had repros showing up of the same construction, that would be an easy call. However, Globe imported and sold things for a long time. It is without question that Globe imported and sold fakes. Thus, the fact (if we know it to be a fact) that Globe imported these "ovt" covers is not positive or dispositive to my analysis. Now, if we had an ad were Globe was selling "your choice" jkh 42 and ovt 44 covers at the same time with the standard carnival barking, or even (as they did it) a listing with all types that would be significant to me. I'm not doubting your recollection. Are you saying that the jkh 42 and hkv 41 and ovt 44 covers showed up at the same time? I do believe that Globe was also selling the fake S marked winter triggers at that time as well.
 
Last edited:
The ovt code is for "Josto"Lederwarenfabrik Franz Friedl in Prag. Not sure how much that helps, but they also made P.08 holsters in 1944 according to Heidlers code book. Lets look for pics of one and see if they are original, that might help this discussion along.
 
I have Heidler's book but was lazy and didn't look at it. These are clearly a very good make of an action cover of lesser materials and workmanship than the earlier hkv 41 and jqh 42 examples. The question is this as a result of inferior late war materials and expedience or reproduction? Given all things, hands on examination and comparison, my vote would be that they are originals of late war make. However, it's a vote with reservations whereas the vote for the hkv 41 and jqh 42 examples is unreserved and unqualified.
 
Big giant thanks to my friend Ham for doin this in-depth evaluation. I appreciate it not only for my own education but I think it will help all of us that are into this kinda stuff.
All the questions I had on the cover and a few others were addressed here by Ham and others so far. And from the things Ham has elaborated on, specially the buttons and the black light testing really brings out points that lead me to lean toward it bein right. That said I am not sure when Pakistan or other countries were doin this kinda repro stuff, especially with period rivets and what sounds like old material.
I agree that it is strange to think that items like this would be produced in 44 and not often seen in pictures but it was not until June of 44 Normandy and the big push up the Italian boot that Germany was threatened on more than just the eastern front. We all know that at the same time and even right up to the last German weapons designers at Rheinmetall and other locations were poring in massive efforts in design, and materials and money for some of the most cutting edge weapons ever made, and most in the experimental stage only and could not see the field for years, while down the road they are makin K98’s in some cases with out-of-spec or unused MG34 barrels, prolly wondering on the east side how many more hours till the Bolsheviks would be crappin on their front yard.
I’m still hopin more info comes to light on these through this conversation.
And thanks Craig, I knew you would do it right.
...
I purchased a few items from Globe back in what I remember was about 1979-80 when I was in high school
And up through about 83. As a matter of possible interest I obtained at that time a winter “Abzug” and a while back posted it here on the forum and it was vetted as original. I got this trigger about the same time frame as the covers were for sale as was mentioned here by pwcosol, so with that information Globe was trafficking in at least some confirmed original items.

Steveo
<><
 
Last edited:

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top