Third Party Press

Firearms of Imperial German overseas forces.

MichaelWC

Senior Member
Firearm research of the Imperial German colonial and Overseas Forces.

Bayonets and unit disc markings
Southwest Africa:
KS = Kaiserliche Schutztruppe
K.S. (no) = Kaiserliche Schutztruppe DSWA
L.P. (no.) = Landespolizei DSWA
K.G.P. (no.)=Kaiserliches Gouvernement Polizei and seem to be used in 1905-07.
(no.) F.R.E. (no.) =Feld Regiment Ersatz
The Schutztruppe were only temporarily formed into regimental units during the Herero Rebellion.
(no.) F.R. (no.) =Feld-Regiment
The Schutztruppe were only temporarily formed into regimental units during the Herero Rebellion.
F.P. (no.) Fuhrpark-Kolonne of the Schutztruppe of South West Africa.
Kamerun:
Sch. K.(no.)= Kamerun
S.K. (no.)= Schutztruppe Kamerun
P.T.K. (no.) = Polizeitruppe Kamerun
East Africa:
Sch. D.O.A (no.) = Deutsch Ost-Afrika
Togo:
P.T. (no.) = Polizeitruppe Togo (no Schutztruppe in Togo, just police)
Other Colonial markings:
F.K. = Feld Kompagnie (14 in DOA, 9 in DSWA, 12 in Kamerun)
Sch. A. (no.) = Schutzpolizei Anhalt-Scheinwerfer-Abteilung. there were 2 in DSWA.
Sch. PI. (no.)= Schießplatz training unit.
S.F. (no.)= Samoan Polizeitruppe and Fita-Fita
P. (no.) Simpler mark for Kamerun or Togo Polizeitruppe.
Seabataillon
I. S.B.R. (no.)= I. Seebataillon) was based at Kiel
Il. S.B.R. (no.)= II. Seebataillon) at Wilhelmshaven.
Ill. S.B.R. (no.)= III. Seebataillon) was formed in Tsingtao in China in 1898 and permanently based there, with small staff base at Cuxhaven.
O.M.D.(no.) = Ostasiatische Marine Detachmen. Marine Detachment of Marine Infantry troops based in Peking and Tientsin from 1909 to 1914.

Ostasiatische Expeditionscorps or Imperial East Asian expedition corp
(no.)O.R.(no.)= East Asian expedition corp
No.)O.J.(no.)= Ostasiatische Jäger company
O.F.A.(no.)= Ostasiatische Feld-Artillerie
O.P.( no.)= Ostasiatische Pionier
O.E.(no.)= Oberkommando des Ostasiatischen Expeditionkorps or it may be Ostasiatische Eisenbahn Batallion.

South African Union Defence Force or UDF (post 1912) marks on Schutztruppegewehr 98's.
Arrow in U = service
Diamond in U = sold out of service.

Firearms used by the Schutztruppe in the African colonies.

Mauser Jägerbüchse 1871:

1875/ÖWG/840c/Sch.D.O.A.430
1.R.I.2.81.
(This Jägerbüchse was used by the Schutztruppe of German East Africa.) Old unit mark has been ex-out.
1875/ÖWG/2687f/Sch.K (This Jägerbüchse was also used by the Schutztruppe of Kamerun. This rifle is part of a private collection in Germany)
1875/ÖWG/4084E/Sch.D.O.A.1587 (1909 or later. This Jägerbüchse was also used by the Schutztruppe of German East Africa.)
1875/ÖWG/7356J/E.16.91 and with Colonial Eagle and “S”.
1875/ÖWG/?/Sch.D.O.A. (This Jägerbüchse was used by the Schutztruppe of German East Africa.)
*NOTE: Beginning in 1909 the Spandau arsenal altered numbers of JB71s for colonial service by adding an ejector. JB71s issued to colonial units before 1909 had no ejector.

Gew 88 and Kar 88 used by the Schutztruppe.
?/?/873/K.S. 2470. S (Note: this Gew 88 has 873 on the receiver and has a odd unit disc on the side of the stock. Receiver has been scrubbed. It was found in Namibia in the late 80's or early 90's.) This rifle is part of the T. Dawes collection in South Africa.
1890/V.C.Schilling and Suhl/4760/B.M.S.7
1892/V.C.Schilling and Suhl/?812/?

Art Kar 98, Kav Kar 98, Kar.98 1st variant, Kar.98 2nd model and Kar98a of the Schutztruppe:
1901 Erfurt

1901/Erfurt/1645/F.P.3.72 (Fahrpark-Kolonne Nr,3, Waffe Nr.72), indicates this carbine could have seen service with the Kaiserliche Schutztruppe in South-West Africa against the Hereros and Hottentotten, when they rebelled against the German Colonial Troops. First pattern of carbine.
1901/Erfurt/2499/? (This carbine is marked Art. Kar.98 for artillery on the side rail.)
1904 Erfurt
1904/Erfurt/596/? Kar.98 2nd model of carbine.
1904/Erfurt/2107/3.F.P.1.32 (note: F.P.1.32 Fahrpark-Kolonne Nr.1 waffe Nr. 32 (Second pattern of carbine.)
1904/Erfurt/3155/? Kar.98 2nd model of carbine.
1904/Erfurt/5564/? Kar.98 2nd model of carbine.
1904/Erfurt/6806/? Kar.98 2nd model of carbine.
1905 Erfurt
1905/Erfurt/8352/5.F.P.4.51 (note: 5.F.P.4.51 Fahrpark-Kolonne Nr.4 waffe Nr. 51. Kar.98 2nd model of carbine. This carbine is part of the T. Dawes collection in South Africa.
Kar.98a
1912 Erfurt

1912/Erfurt/2470/Sch.K.835 (This carbine was used by the Schutztruppe from Kameroon.)
1912 Danzig
1912/Danzig/3933/Sch.D.O.A.487 (This rifle is in private hands in Australia. This carbine was also used by the Schutztruppe of German East Africa.)
1912/Danzig/?/SCH.D.O.A.1080 (This carbine was also used by the Schutztruppe of German East Africa.)
The Kar98a became the standard issue service rifle in the DOA, Kamerun and Togo by 1913. NCOs were first to get it. They started the re-equipment of Askaris with it, which was still in progress by 1914. Askaris in 5 companies (1., 4., 8., 10. and 13. FK) were equipped with it by start of war.
Schutztruppengewehr 1898 used by the Kaiserliche Schutztruppe:

Mauser Oberndorf am Neckar
1899/WMO/6735/K.S.10228.S
(very few details about this rifle. It is unknown if stock is original to the receiver.)

Spandau 1900
1900/Spandau/148d/K.S. 2333. S This rifle is past of the T. Dawes collection in South Africa.
1900/Spandau/3534c/K.S. 190. S
1900/Spandau/4977c/K.S.9043.S This rifle is also marked 2.F.R.7.81
1900/Spandau/5750c/K.S.9671
1900/Spandau/6507/K.S.10784 (Part of MWC collection)
1900/Spandau/6660c/K.S.2706 .S (This rifle is also marked. L.P.638)
1900/Spandau/7267c/K.S.226.S (This rifle is has been spotirized. Forward end of the stock has been cut down all the way to the second Barrel ban spring. Rifle is in a private collection in South Africa.)
1900/Spandau/7467i/K.S.9043
1900/Spandau/7478b/K.S. (KCN report - SA collection, stated "KS")
1900/Spandau/8559c/K.S.10834. (In Private collection in Germany)
1900/Spandau/9037c/K.S. 2030. S
1900/Spandau/9450c/K.S.1623.S (Rifle in a South African collection. (UDF marked)
1900/Spandau/?/K.S.10279
1900/Spandau/?/K.S.11194(This rifle is also marked. L.P.424)
1900/Spandau/?/K.S. also UDF marked.
(Gew 98 was found in South African auction house "ClassicArms" Catalog as item number F016) auction of 5/7/2022
1900/Spandau/?/K.S. (Gew 98 was found in South African auction house "ClassicArms" Catalog as item number F030) auction of 3/23/2019

Spandau 1901
1901/Spandau/168/K.S.9788.S (eGun poor pictures.)
1901/Spandau/1473/? (report - stated KS)
1901/Spandau/1575/K.S. 8274. S
1901/Spandau/1744/K.S.1138. S(Two UDF marks above the serial number. One is (Arrow in U = service) the other is (Diamond in U = sold out of service.)
1901/Spandau/B2004B/K.S.1755. S (Serial number is not original. Serial number is not a new registration number. UDF numbers usually have U as the start perfix. Also this rifles barrel and action have been reblued.)
1901/Spandau/2346/ K.S.11260
1901/Spandau/2538/K.S.
1901/Spandau/2692/K.S.792.S
1901/Spandau/2719/? (This rifle is a barreled Schutztruppegewehr 98 action but in a normal stock. This rifle also doesn't have a unit dice. Very much a mix master rifle. Bolt doesn't match to rest of the rifle. WR 34122 on side of the receiver stands for weapons register. Each firearm in SA is registered but if there is a duplication then a WR number is given for that rifle. The serial number 2719 isn't German. The standard Gewehr 1898 stock has a 1920 property proof mark on it.) Rifles owner is J. Hoffman
1901/Spandau/3670/K.S.11220. Rifle resides in a private collection in Namibia.
1901/Spandau/4141/K.S. (KCN report - SA collection)
1901/Spandau/4839/K.S.1378.S "Underneath the bolt handle in the bolt cut out there is a "N within D"
1901/Spandau/5115/K.S.1187.S (this rifle has a South African Union Defence Force or UDF marked. Mark is diamond in U = sold out of service on the receiver.) Rifle is privately owned by L. Hildago.
1901/Spandau/5117a /K.S. 2539.S (report - SA collection)
1901/Spandau/5703/K.S.
1901/Spandau/5881a/K.S.2869.S
1901/Spandau/5895/ No K.S. marking
1901/Spandau/5922a/KS (KCN report - SA collection)
1901/Spandau/6693/K.S.3904.S (In Private collection in Germany) (WR 35630 on side of the receiver stands for weapons register. Each firearm in SA is registered but if there is a duplication then a WR number is given for that rifle.)
1901/Spandau/6958/K.S.4061.S (UDF marked)
1901/Spandau/7028/K.S.1138
1901/Spandau/7083/KS (CB report)
1901/Spandau /7372/K.S.4349.S (SA collection)
1901/Spandau/?/K.S.2748
1901/Spandau/?/K.S.2177.S (serial unknown)
1901/Spandau/?/? (serial unknown & unknown K.S. marking.)

Spandau 1903
1903/Spandau/1210a/? (KCN report - SA collection)

Spandau 1914
1914/Spandau/10/? ( In 1914 some new Schutztruppegewehr 1898 were manufactured with bolt handles of the cyclist rifle. It is not known how many of these rifles were manufactured or if any made there way to the African colonies.)

Erfurt 1902
1902/Erfurt/1133/K.S.4540 (UDF marked)
1902/Erfurt/9925e/K.S.9881

Erfurt 1903

1903/Erfurt/1144f/K.S.5682.S
1903/Erfurt/?/K.S.5072.S (UDF marked)

Firearms of the Landespolizei and Polizeitruppe.

Mauser Gewehr 1871:

1875/Spandau/2896/ This rifle is marked ORTSPolizeibehörde Windhoek 2166.
Rack or issue number is 2166.

Mauser Jägerbüchse 1871:
1877/Danzig/4329/Sch.K.2107 "P. ERDELT/NEUSTADT" used by the Polizeitruppe of Kamerun.
1880/Danzig/2343/This rifle is marked "ORTSPolizeibehörde Bethanien 359" (This would indicate that it was used by a Kaiserliches Gouvernement Polizei unit at Bethanien in SouthWest Africa, prior to the formation of the Landespolizei in 1905. 359 would be the weapon issue number.)
1881/Danzig/9564/? (Rifle has issue number of 2104. The issue number is flanked on both sides with the Imperial Colonial eagle and a letter "S". The "S" proof could stand for Spitzkoppe but we will never know.
?/ÖWG/4294/10.D.4.97 (This rifle was 1871 Jägerbüchse that been sporterized. It is also marked "ORTSPolizeibehörde Warmbad 160" for Southwest African Police.)
NOTE: Beginning in 1909 Spandau arsenal altered numbers of JB71s for colonial service by adding an ejector. JB71s issued to colonial units before 1909 had no ejector.

Gew 88 and Kar 88 used by the Landespolizei and Polizeitruppe.
1893/Erfurt/8525q/? (This carbine was captured by the British in 1914 in the German colony of Togo. This carbine was used by the Togo Polizeitruppe. The carbine is now on display in the British Imperial war museum.)

Art Kar 98, Kav Kar 98, Kar.98 1st variant, Kar.98 2nd model and Kar98a of the Landespolizei and Polizeitruppe:
1901 Erfurt

1901/Erfurt/2043/marked in the wood “Ortspolizeibehorde Gibeon 899”, and F.T.A 50 on the butt disc. (Note: This carbine is marked Kav. Kar 98 on the side rail.) C. Amm collection.
1904 Erfurt
1904/Erfurt/4411/K.G.P. 150 on the buttplate extension. C. Amm collection.
1904/Erfurt/4540/K.G.P.46.
(note: K.G.P. stands for Kaiserliches Gouvernement Polizei and seem to be used in 1905-07.) Second pattern of carbine.
1904/Erfurt/5101/K.G.P. 139 Kaiserliches Gouvernement Polizei and seem to be used in 1905-07. (Ortspolitzie Windhuk & Ortspolitzie Bethanien.) Second pattern of carbine. This carbine is past of the T. Dawes collection in South Africa.
1904/Erfurt/6800/ Urispolizei Behörde Luderitzbucht No.258 on the butt plate. Unit mark is "District Police Property" Very common before the formation of the Landespolizei in 1907. Also there is L 258 above the Erfurt on the crest. Kar.98 2nd model of carbine.
1904/Erfurt/6913/K.G.P.47. Kar.98 2nd model of carbine.
1904/Erfurt/7141/K.G.P.202. Kar.98 2nd model of carbine.

Schutztruppegewehr 98 of the Landespolizei and Polizeitruppe:
1900 Spandau

1900/Spandau/4262c/L.P.200 (Part of MWC collection)
1900/Spandau/4524c/L.P.XXX (This rifle was used by the UDF. With three UDF proof marks of the receiver. With a WR number of WR43482 on the left side of receiver and barrel. Original serial numbers and inventory serial number has been X out.
1900/Spandau/4640/L.P.273 (This rifle has a South American Mauser replacement stock most likely from a Brazilian 1908. Also removed and replaced original disc with a replacement unit disc marked. K.S.10797 .S )
1900/Spandau/6174c/L.P.561 (UDF marked)
1900/Spandau/6212/L.P.569 (This Gew 98 was used by Karl Füchsel (1883-1960) Polizeisergeant Füchsel used: S. Gewehr Nr. LP 569 (Fabrik Nr 6212, Spandau 1900);
July, 1 1912)
1900/Spandau/6660c/L.P.638 (This rifle is also marked. K.S.2706 .S)
1900/Spandau/7530c/L.P.750
LP 750 with the numbers erased (made unrecognizable) and below the crown over SPANDAU and 1900. On the left side: military proof of heraldic eagles linearly next to it the S.No. 7530 c and above it two ownership stamps of the ZAR (South African Republic) and also mark 98
1900/Spandau/7538/L.P.xxx (suffix unknown-numbers x'd out. This rifle is also UDF marked)
1900/Spandau/?/L.P.424 (This rifle is also marked. K.S.11194)

East Asian Force's:
1899/ Erfurt/5390/4.O.R.9.188
1900/ Spandau/7357a/1.O.R.4.116
1900/Spandau/8074a/1.O.J.R.2.55
1st East Asian Infantry Regt, 4th Coy, weapon number 116
1900/Erfurt/933/O.F.A1.21.
1900/Erfurt/6316a/O.P.111.
1902/Erfurt/7446d/O.158. (This rifle may or may not be Ostasiatisches marked unit disc.)

Seabataillon:
1899/Erfurt/5205/ III.S.B.2.199
1903/DWM/ 2225/I.S.B.3693
1903/DWM/2096a/ II.S.B.3023
1913/Spandau/9060c/ III.S.B.R.321
1913/Spandau/9741c/ III.S.B.R.124
1914/Danzig/4070/II.S.B.
1915/DWM/1510/I.S.B.414
1915/Spandau/4339d/I.S.B.1111 (Low-level Armorer Rework Seebataillon Marked. This rifle is part of the C.Clemons collection.

Ostasiatische Marine-Detachement:
1913/Erfurt/2133a O.M.D.39
1913/Erfurt/2475a/O.M.D.49 (This Kar98 is part of M.Cammack collection.)

Machine Guns of the Schutztruppe and Overseas Forces:
DWM

1910/DWM/817 (This MG08 was aboard either the SMS Goeben or SMS Breslau when they sailed into the Mediterranean Sea before the First World War. When war broke out both ships made for Istanbul where they placed themselves under Ottoman naval command.
Soon after and indeed largely due to the ships' involvement, the Ottoman Empire was dragged into the war on the side of Germany and Austria-Hungary. Britain and France launched an invasion of the Dardanelles straights (although the British contingent was largely made up of Australian and New Zealand troops and the French contingent was partially Senegalese) at Gallipoli. To assist the defending Ottoman army the German ships sent machine guns and their crews to the frontline. This machine gun was captured at the Second Battle of Krithia on 6th May 1915 by Hood Battalion of the 2nd (Royal Naval) bergade.
They then presented it to their overall commanding officer, the departing French commander, General Albert d'Amade. The gun remained in d'Amade's chateau until after his death in 1941. The new owners of the chateau handed it in to the French Gendarmerie, who in turn tried to give it to the "Musée de l'Infanterie" at Montpellier but they turned it down. Finally it was given to its present owner, a gunsmith named Gilles Sigro.)
1912/DWM/1115 (This MG08 which is a German Navy MG08, on an Acland tripod. Estimated manufacture date is 1912. Captured by the Cape Corps in a bayonet charge in German East Africa in 1917.)
1915/DWM/5008 (provenance unknown, but the most unusual trenchmount suggests DOA use. This MG08 may have been in the 1916 Marie shipment, as the trench mount that it is mounted on would likely have not been available as early as 1915.) This MG08 is part of C. Amm collection.
Spandau
1912/Spandau/1741 (This MG08 was used in the GSWA.
1912/Spandau/1871 (This MG08 was used by Colonial police in the DOA, with unusual 1909 commercial type tripod." Also captured by the Cape Corps in a bayonet charge in German East Africa in 1917.)

Note: (Both MG08 1115 and 1871 have been restored by C. Amm and are now on display in a museum in cap town.)

Handguns of the Overseas forces:
Mauser Construction 1896 (Broom handle) pistol
?/Mauser Oberndorf/?/1052 Keetmanshoop
(Orts Polizei Behörde' or local police authority, and 'Keetmanshoop' in German South West Africa. This pistol is unique because it is a early slabside model.)

Luger P.04:
1916/DWM/855/I.S.B.662
P04 belongs to the last series of these weapons, is dated 1916 and has serial number 855. It was given to I Seebataillon as a weapon nr. 662
Luger 1906 Navy:
?/DWM/330/W.K./2470 & I.S.B. (1906 Navy 1st Alt.
W.K./2740 lined out.)
?/DWM/693/I.S.B.639 1906 Navy
?/DWM/911/I.S.B.619 & S.W.I.1448
(1906 Navy N.A. Weimar rework. 4” barrel, sear and mag (removed) safeties.
Chamber marked 1920 and front grip S.W.I. 1448.)
?/DWM/1647/I.S.B.705 (1906 Navy
Mixed early and late C/M’s (correct). Replacement side-pate.)
?/DWM/1649/.W.K./200 & I.S.B.290 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. Front grip strap marked I.S.B./290. Lightly pitted, chipped left grip.)
?/DWM/1661/I.S.B.715 (1906 Navy 1st Alt.)
?/DWM/1676/I.S.B.709 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. Replacement barrel, externally numbered side-plate & force matched magazine. Small parts re-strawed. In Germany.)
?/DWM/1863/W.W./610 & I.S.B.289 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. Weimar rework, barrel shortened to 4”, original Navy rear toggle, rear grip strap marked W.W./610, front grip strap
I.S.B./289.)
?/DWM/1870/W.K./22 & I.S.B.186 (1906 Navy 1st Alt.“GERMANY” marked under barrel. An old re-blue but still a nice looking gun with some isolated pitting. Rear grip strap
marked W.K./22, front strap marked I.S.B.186.)
?/DWM/2168/I.S.B.702 (1906 Navy)
?/DWM/2401/I.S.B.16 (1906 Navy 1st Alt.
In France.)
?/DWM/2593/W.K./223 & I.S.B.251 1906 Navy
?/DWM/2634/I.S.B.711 (1906 Navy 1st Alt.
Some light pitting.)
?/DWM/3036/I.S.B.111 (1906 Navy)
?/DWM/3715/W.K./250 & I.S.B.280 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. I.S.B./280 on front grip strap.)
?/DWM/3864/I.S.B. (1906 Navy 1st Alt
3 Lobe Chipped left grip, decent condition otherwise.)
?/DWM/3980/I.S.B. (1906 Navy 1st Alt.
Frame only, top half is from a G date Mauser.)
?/DWM/4113/I.S.B.18 (1906 Navy 1st Alt.
The gun has been refinished and the matching number mag is fake, as are the matching numbered stock and holster that are offered with it.
?/DWM/4978/II.S.B.3 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt.
Nice original condition.)
?/DWM/5004/II.S.B.6 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt.)
?/DWM/5029/II.S.B. (1906 Navy)
?/DWM/5124/II.S.B.32 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt. Double matched consecutive pair with #5125. Force matched mag.)
?/DWM/5125/II.S.B.33 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt. Double matched consecutive pair with #5124. Force matched mag. Has later Army proofs on stock lug.)
?/DWM/5136/I.S.B.230 & W.K./2813 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. I.S.B./230 on front grip strap. “Navy Arsenal refinish”, barrel ”GERMANY” marked.)
?/DWM/5444/W.W./567 & I.S.B.273 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. I.S.B./273 on front grip strap.)
?/DWM/5720/II.S.B.81 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt. “Refinished over light pitting.” Poor condition over all.)
?/DWM/5749/II.S.B.82 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt.
Stamped “GERMANY” on left frame rail. Nice original finish.)
?/DWM/6019/W.W./802 & I.S.B.295 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. I.S.B./295 on front grip strap. Matching number stock.)
?/?/6090/W.K.2800 & I.S.B.237 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. I.S.B./237 on front grip strap, Decent shape.)
?/DWM/6542/W.K./1479 & I.S.B. (1906 Navy
Also marked W.K./1479, lined out.)
?/DWM/2509a/I.S.B.76 (1906 Navy 1st Alt. “GERMANY” marked under barrel. Has bluing on safety block which is indicative of some localized touch-up, other than that looks to be in decent original condition. Some
damage to left grip.)
?/DWM/5404a/I.S.B.?9 (1906 Navy In Germany.)
?/DWM/5684a/I.S.B.68 1906 Navy
?/DWM/7614a/ II.S.B.95 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt. Mismatched side-plate.)
?/DWM/7689a/II.S.B.98 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt. “Armorer’s replacement mag.”. In Germany)
?/DWM/7812a/II.S.B.116 (1906 Navy 1st Unalt.
In France. Some parts reblued.)
?/DWM/7924a/II.S.B.129 (1906 Navy. In Germany)
?/DWM/9461a/I.S.B159 (1906 Navy 2nd Issue Professional restoration. Unit marked on front grip strap.)
?/DWM/555b/I.S.B.434 (1906 Navy 2nd Issue Refinished.)
?/DWM/?/GOUV. KIAU. 278 & O.M.D.2.6. 1906 Navy

Luger P.08 :
?/?/5403b/I.S.B.345 (1908 Navy Beech grips.)
?/?/5414b/I.S.B.371. (1908 Navy
Lightly pitted finish looks original.)
?/?/5950b/I.S.B.360 (1908 Navy)
?/?/7794b/I.S.B.507 (1908 Navy)
?/?/7947b/I.S.B.524 (1908 Navy)

DWM 1911 : Sch. D.O.A. 4 to Sch. D.O.A.172
1911/DWM/139f/Sch.D.O.A.101.
(Schutztruppe Deutsch Ost-Afrika, gun No. 101.
1911/DWM/?/Sch.D.O.A.18

Erfurt 1911 :
Landespolizei markings that range between L.P.3 and L.P.396
1911/Erfurt/937/L.P.396
1911/Erfurt/1245/L.P. 37
1911/Erfurt/?/L.P. 54
1911/Erfurt/1091/L.P. 211

DWM 1911 :
Landespolizei markings that range between L.P.95 and L.P.416
1911/DWM/677e/ L.P.95 (Landespolizei Deutsch-Südwest Afrika, Waffe Nr. 95)
1911/DWM/9656e/L.P. 157 <two lines>- (Landespolizei Deutsch-Südwest Afrika, Waffe Nr. 157)
1911/DWM/274f/L.P.253 (Landespolizei Deutsch-Südwest Afrika, Waffe Nr. 253)
1911/DWM/166f/L.P.335 (Landespolizei Deutsch-Südwest Afrika, Waffe Nr. 343)
1911/DWM/9844e/L.P.343
(Landespolizei Deutsch-Südwest Afrika, Waffe Nr. 343)
1911/DWM/9772e/L.P.370 (Landespolizei Deutsch-Südwest Afrika, Waffe Nr. 370)
1911/DWM/?/L.P. 416(Landespolizei Deutsch-Südwest Afrika, Waffe Nr. 416)

DWM 1913 : Landespolizei markings that range between L.P.472 and L.P.525
1913/DWM/5019/L.P.492 (Landespolizei Deutsch-Südwest Afrika, Waffe Nr. 492)

Luger 1916 Navy variant:
1916/?/693/I.S.B.639 (1916 Navy)
1916/DWM/803/I.S.B.681 (1916 Navy)
1916/DWM/855/I.S.B.662 (1916 Navy barrel marked “Germany”. In Italy. Unrelieved sear bar.)
1916/DWM/860/I.S.B.586 (1916 Navy)
1916/DWM/886/I.S.B.643 (1916 Navy)
1916/DWM/911/I.S.B.619 (1916 Navy
Weimar conversion, 4” barrel, sear and magazine safeties.)
1916/DWM/978/I.S.B.606. (1916 Navy Unrelieved sear bar.)

Roth-Sauer model 1907 Pistol:
"According to "Unter dem Kreuz des Südens" by S Schepp there were 213 Roth-Sauer model 1907 pistols in service with the Landespolizei in 1912." (LP markings that range between L.P.46 and L.P.307) information from C. Amm
?/Roth-Sauer/ C 61/LP 237
?/Roth-Sauer/C 161/LP 72
?/ Roth-Sauer/C 205/LP 106
?/ Roth-Sauer/C 212/LP 123
?/ Roth-Sauer/C 273/LP 184
?/ Roth-Sauer/C 377/LP 161
?/Roth-Sauer/C 378/LP 228
?/Roth-Sauer/C396/ LP 90 This Roth-Sauer was used by Karl Füchsel (1883-1960) Polizeisergeant Füchsel used: Roth-Sauer-Pistole LP 90 (Fabrik Nr 396) July, 1 1912)
?/Roth-Sauer/C 408/LP 55
?/Roth-Sauer/C 419/LP 92
?/Roth-Sauer/C 486/LP 54
?/Roth-Sauer/C 559/LP 109
?/Roth-Sauer/C 706/LP 209
?/Roth-Sauer/C 737/LP 179

1879 and 1883 der Revolver or Reichsrevolver:
1879 Der Revolver:

?/ V.C.S*C.C.H. Suhl/4523/I.S.B.9. R
?/ V.C.S*C.C.H. Suhl/4553/II.S.B.240.
1883 Der Revolver:
Erfurt

?/Erfurt/272d/OA1 MK1 (This pistol has two sets of unit markings. The first is "OA1 MK1" for "Ostasiatisches Field-Artillerie Regiment Batterie 1 Muntionskolonne 1." (East Asian Artillery Regiment, 1st Battery, 1st Munitions Supply Column). The second marking after it is a later issue marking "143R.9.5.." for the 9th Company of the 143rd Lower Alsatian Infantry Regiment ("4. Unter-Elsässisches Infanterie-Regiment. Nr.143") which served on the Western Front during the First World War
1894/Erfurt/1953/1.O.R.4.3 (This pistol has three sets of unit markings. Two are from East Asian service- First "1.O.R.4.3" 4th East Asian Infantry Regiment, 4th Company.
Second "O.A.F.2.18" (2nd Battery, East Asian Foot Artillery). The third is "M.G.A.1.30" for the 1st Machine Gun Abteilung of the Prussian Army.)
1893/Erfurt/2419/O.A.7.8. Ostasiatisches, Feld-Artillerie-Regiment, Batterie 7, Waffe Nr. 8. The second mark is 2.O.R.10 which is ID'd as Ostasiatisches Infanterie-Regiment 2, Stab, Waffe Nr. 10.
1893/Erfurt/2945/5.O.R. 5.8
1895/Erfurt/2298/O.A.2.29 & 70.A.A.15
1896/Erfurt/3848/K.G.P.39
1899/Erfurt/6137/K.G.P.246.
18.RA.3.142.
This has been cancelled with X over-stampings. 18.RA.1.1?? This has been cancelled with a file. The weapon number begins with 1, but it is not clear if it was a two or three digit number.
V.C.S*C.C.H. Suhl
?/
V.C.S*C.C.H. Suhl/5/ K.S.12.
?/ V.C.S*C.C.H. Suhl/26L/K.S.211 (Part of MWC collection)
?/V.C.S*C.C.H. Suhl/?/ K.S.102
?/
V.C.S*C.C.H. Suhl/?/ K.S.202

In 1912, there were 494 Reichsrevolvers, 301 Roth-Sauers and 442 P08s in the inventory of the Landespolizei.

Schutztruppe marked muzzle cap
K.S. 10855 (In the South African private collection.)
K.S. 16 (muzzle cap once part of Craig Brown collection and was on rifle 1900/Spandau/4977c/K.S.9043.S This rifle is also marked 2.F.R.7.81
K.S. 9930
K.S. 11349

Note:Many rifles on my list have Question marks for their serial numbers. That is because I found them in South African auction house or they belong to collectors. So I could not acquire the serial number. Thank you.
Updated on 1/5/2024
 

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I can only add another Spandau 1900 with L.P. ??? marking.
The rifle was on display at a gun show decades ago. No further details. Sorry.

Do not forget the other colonies.
The shown bayonet frog made it home from the police forces Cameroon.
 

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I can only add another Spandau 1900 with L.P. ??? marking.
The rifle was on display at a gun show decades ago. No further details. Sorry.

Do not forget the other colonies.
The shown bayonet frog made it home from the police forces Cameroon.

Thank you Amberg. Anything and everything can help.
 
COLONIAL SERVICE RIFLES - Craig Brown 2003

COLONIAL SERVICE RIFLES

If anything, more obscure than the Radfahrers.

All I know of are Spandau and date from 1900 to 1903. They have all the characteristics of a conventional early Gew 98: flat-sided bayonet stud, first form firing pin, early style Lange rear sight registering on 200; it has been asserted that the reason the sights were not changed was to permit snap shooting at close quarters in the bush. The bolts are bent down in a curve (like the Kar 98AZ/Kar 98a) not at an angle (like the Radfahrer, Kar 98b and Kar 98k). and there is a clearance cut for the bolt knob which is full round. They are converted to the S Patrone and have an S stamped on the barrel behind the rear sight and sometimes an S stamped on the marking disc (in addition to whatever else there may be on the marking disc.)
The marking disc is usually stamped K.S. (Kaiserliches Schutztruppe = Imperial Defense Force) followed by a number. I Have disassembled three of these rifles. In one case the disc was right-side-up as found and marked as noted. In the other two cases the disc had been reversed and the side showing was marked K.S. (no.) The original disc markings were struck out; in one case, the markings are visible and indicate issue to a Feldregiment (of which more below) and in the other case the initial letters were illegible but the balance looked like a standard Kompagnie/Waffennummer sequence. One rifle had the original bolt SN ground off and a new (matching) number added; another has an originally matched bolt.

These rifles seem to have been issued exclusively to the Schutztruppe DSWA; PERHAPS to the Schutztruppe DOA and Kamerun; not to Togo, which had only a police unit. The KS DSWA was a mounted outfit with one camel company; they fought as mounted infantry; i.e., moved on their horses/camels but fought dismounted, like infantry. The KS DSWA was an exclusively European; no native units but there was an auxiliary (supply) outfit comprised of Bastards (mixed native/European "tribe") who supported them.

The Germans had a lot of trouble keeping the lid on in DSWA. They didn't impose controls on firearms for the locals until very late in the game and their colonial policy was far from enlightened. In 1904 the Herero started a rising which the Germans didn't succeed in putting down until 1907. They did so by virtually exterminating the Hereros. When the uprising broke out the KS was caught flat-footed out of the immediate area and had to redeploy; their numbers were not large and they were rapidly reinforced by Navy personnel on station and then extensively reinforced by units sent out from Germany. There is an large body of literature on the Herero uprising extensively illustrated; in not one case that I know of are Colonial G98s shown in the hands of units during the rising - there are Kar 71s, G71/84s, G88s, Kar 98s, and straight-bolt standard G98s, but no bent-bolt Colonial G98s. Prior to (?) and during the uprising the Schutztruppe DSWA was organised into Field Regiments.

Fast forward to 1914:

The South Africans drive on DSWA. Some die-hard Boers try to join the Schutztruppe (which already has a Boer Kompagnie) but they are cut off by the loyalist Boers under Smuts et. al. The CO of the KS DSWA puts up a good fight but sees his mission as confined to the defence of his colony only and is finally boxed in and surrenders in 1915. The South Africans take the KS DSWA POW, amnesty most of them and send them home - with their rifles and ammo so they can keep the lid on the locals. Smuts gets a lot of flak for this.
The South Africans discover something in the order of 10,000 rifles in store in DSWA. Why? To arm the Boers who the Germans expected to join en masse in case of war. They haul the loot back to Johannesburg, where some of it is photographed in huge heaps. Some of the rifles go home with the South Africans as trophies,; others are buried (some got dug up in the late 1980s). The interesting thing is that contemporary photos of this period both of German and South African origin show classic Colonial G98s, i.e., with bent bolts.
So sometime between 1907 and 1914 the Colonials appear.

Based on the extremely limited number of Colonials I have examined it looks to me (from the unit markings) that they started out as straight-bolt jobs, perhaps some already in the colony and others brought out from Germany with the reinforcements and were then modified to bent bolt configuration. Unfortunately the marking regs for the Schutztruppe have never been found so we don't know when the K.S. (no.) came into effect which might give us some sort of clue as to when this was done.

I suspect that the bolts were bent and the stocks inletted locally. Some support for this notion is found in Schnee (ed.), Deutsches Kolonial-Lexikon, Leipzig, 1920, Bd.1, S. 197: topic: "Armament: .....Since for special constructions (sic) the Army administration did not come into question their supply resulted through cooperation with private industries." This according to Major K. Zimmerman, KS Kamerun, the author responsible for sections in the encyclopedia relating to military affairs.

2004 is the centennial of the Herero uprising and there is considerable academic activity in Germany and elsewhere planned in that year in the way of conferences, studies, etc. since in the last five years or so some German historians have postulated that the extermination of the Hereros is forerunner of Nazi genocide in the World War II era. We may see some studies of the KS DSWA in the appropriate specialised press which may shed more light on their rifles.

The Colonial rifle in Ball is mine; it is 100% matched.

NB:An article on the Colonial rifle was published in DWJ some years ago and an English translation of it was then published elsewhere; I will add the citations to these articles to this post tomorrow.
WaPruf2
 
RADFAHRERS DURING WWI - Notes of KS

RADFAHRERS DURING WWI

Did some further checking. There was a large EXPANSION of Radfahrer companies during WWI and some were grouped into brigades. Altho initially companies attached to Jäger and Schützen battalions many of the new ones were independent; some were numbered, some named for their C.O. They were frequently used as mobile reserve units.

HILFSKORN (AUXILIARY FRONT SIGHT)

There are so many references to these in the literature I don't think there is much point in listing them. The earliest reference to them I have seen yet is in Schwarte, Die Technik im Weltkrieg, München, 1920. For photos of the real thing see: Luc Guillou, Mauser fusils et carabines militaires, La Tour du Pin, 1992, p. 64.
COLONIAL REAR SIGHTS: CLOSE SHHOOTING IN BUSH

The source for this notion, such as it is, is an article by Hans Fromming, Die Bewaffnung der Kaiserlichen Schutztruppe von Südwest-Afrika, DWJ, H.8., Nr.8, Aug. 1966 S.42-47. A badly translated version of this same article appears in: International Arms Review 2, Oakland, N.J., n.d., pp.208-211.

This article has to be used with great caution. The author illustrates a Colonial (hereafter in my posts indicated as a Kol. Gew.) which has a K98AZ bolt in it; he provides no specific description so we don't know if the bolt matches or not; he illustrates a Stempelplatte marked S. and K.S.712. with the implication it is on the illustrated rifle but he does not say specifically that it is from that rifle...

My translation of his remarks with reference to the rear sight is:

"The [rear] sight was the previously [i.e., prior to the S Patrone] normal Lange sight, where the lowest setting was at the 200m position. [so far, no problem-ed.]. The sight curve was changed [sic!] from the usual 400m setting of the Gewehr 98 [set up] for the S- cartridge to 200m so that with [this] setting close-in targets could be more quickly acquired and engaged."

As I read this, he is saying that the the rifle was initially fitted with an S-Patrone sight but had that removed and replaced with a M88 Patrone sight. I have grave doubts of this, and would be interested to know what the date is on the rifle he is basing his description on, but he does not provide that information...

LOCAL MODIFICATIONS (bolt? rear sight?)

To quote our friend Zimmermann, this time in Schnee, op.cit., Bd. 3, S. 651:

"Weapons of the Police and Schutztruppen: 1. Handweapons. The equipment of the Police and Schutztruppen with hand firearms is proportional to the weaponry and military skills of our opponents in the particular defence areas ( Schutzgebiet; think: colonies-ed.). - In German Southwest Africa, whose inhabitants have modern breechloading weapons and are recognised sharpshooters, the Schutztruppe ([both] officers and enlisted men) and the Landespolizei carry army rifles modified for local conditions known as Schutztruppengewehr."

This, of course, does not specify what the modifications are or by whom, where or when they were modified...

FURTHER QUESTIONS

We are in the same position with the Kol. Gew. that we are with the Radfahrers: we lack sufficient specimens accurately and completely described to reach any firm conclusions.
Is there a Kol. Gew. with K98AZ-type bolt original to it?

Are there any Kol. Gew. with dates AFTER 1903? If so, what kind of sights do they have?

S PATRONE IN THE COLONIES

Again Zimmermann, op.cit., loc. cit.:

"In German East Africa the European [troops] are armed with our modern magazine rifles for S-ammunition...the [Askaris] and Police are in process of being gradually rearmed with S- [ammunition capable] modern weapons....In Kamerun the Europeans and coloreds [sic] of the Schutztruppe and Police [are equipped] with the Kar 98 [sic; version not specified - ed.] (Army model for S-ammunition) [which implies Kar 98AZ -ed.] except for the two companies in the Muslim area which are already equipped with Schutztruppengewehren 98 [
Kol. Gew. - ed.] but for which gradual replacement with Karabiner 98s is proposed. ... The Police in German New Guinea have in part modern repeaters for S ammunition, in part older weapons which are to be replaced in the forseeable future."

To this I add that there are specimens of Kar 98As (Not Kar 98a) known with unit marks P.T. (no.) = Polizeitruppe Togo; I don't have any information on whether they are in the Patrone M88 or S Patrone.

AMMUNITION

This is a summary based on Zimmermann's article in Schnee, op.cit., Bd. 2, S. 601:
Ammunition supplied in watertight (soldered shut) cases; artillery ammo loaded and ready to shoot in the case (but not fused). Ammo packed in loads suitable for carriers: 25-30 kg. In the case of 11mm ammo this meant crates of about 500 rnds. and for 8mm 675 rnds; MG and artillery ammo carried on wagons (usually ox-drawn) or horses. I add that crates of unopened 8mm still survived in South Africa as late as the middle 1980s and may still be there.

SCHUTZTRUPPE TACTICS

Schutztruppe officers were VERY carefully selected from volunteers from the Army, Navy and the occasional Cadet schools (the Colonial service was not thought glamorous enough for the nobility to bother with). The EMs and NCOs (both active and reserve) were almost invariably long-term residents or locally born natives of their colony; in DSWA there was a bunch of Boers who had emigrated from South Africa to get away from the new regime who were also members of the Schutztruppe. These people were used to the climate, had survived the local diseases, knew the terrain, the wildlfe, the locals, their customs, language and their fighting techniques. The KSDSWA was, as noted previously, a mounted outfit which fought as infantry; highly mobile and flexible; they had some light artillery and MGs. They were widely scattered in small posts all around the colony and operated with considerable independence. When the Herero uprising broke out there were not enough of them to suppress it and so reinforcements were sent out from the homeland. The reinforcements were commanded by officers trained for the prevailing style of European warfare as were their accompanying troops. None of them were used to the climate, the diseases, or operating over long distances without an extensive support echelon. The regular officers of course virtually ignored just about any advice they got from the Schutztruppe; that is certainly one reason it took the Germans three years to put down the Hereros. The Hereros were classic highly motivated and well-led guerilla fighters. They could (with the assistance of the Schutztruppe) be found; they could rarely be fixed and fought, and when they were they were invariably defeated. Most of the time they melted off into the bush and the German regulars were too cumbersome to chase them... The famous Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck, later commander of the KSDOA (which during WWI stayed in the field and surrendered a week after the Armistice only on orders from Berlin) learned his trade fighting the Hereros. The Germans finally succeeded in putting down the Hereros by taking no prisoners, destroying their crops, villages and cattle, poisoning their wells and driving them into the Kalahari desert and keeping them there until most of them died.

WaPruf2 6.11.03
 
Craig Brown - More Notes

last updated at Jun 12, 2003 09:50 a.m.

REAR SIGHTS
On the three Kol. Gew. I have actually inspected all had matched sights.
The point about a special version of the rear sight which looks like the original Lange for the M88 cartridge but is really designed for the S cartridge is a good one and has occurred to me as well. The problem I have in determining the situation is that I have no really good large-scale profile views of an original M88 sight and I have no access to an actual specimen. One might expect the mill cuts for the elevator to perhaps be different and/or the depth of the sighting v-notch to be different.

MORE ON TACTICS

On the few occasions the Germans could fix large numbers of the Hereros AND concentrate their troops timely AND surround the Hereros before they dispersed they had to go in and "winkle them out", supported by MG and artillery fires if available. The Hereros were masters of cover, concealment, surprise, evasion and escape.
WaPruf2
 
KS observations

1899 WMO 6735 K.S.10228 (few details-unknown if stock is original to the receiver)

1900 Spandau 7538 L.P.xxx (suffix unknown-numbers x'd out)
1900 Spandau 7478 b (KCN report - SA collection, stated "KS")
1900 Spandau 4262 c L.P.200
1900 Spandau 4977 c K.S.9043 / S - 2.F.R.7.81
1900 Spandau 5750 c K.S.9671
1900 Spandau 6174 c L.P.561
1900 Spandau 7467 i K.S.9043 JN


1901 Spandau 168 K.S. 9788 / S (eGun pictures poor)
1901 Spandau 1473 (report - stated KS)
1901 Spandau 2346 K.S.11260
1901 Spandau 2692 K.S.792 S
1901 Spandau 4141 K.S. (KCN report - SA collection)
1901 Spandau 7083 KS (CB report)
1901 Spandau 7372 K.S.4349 / S (SA collection)
1901 Spandau 5117 a K.S. 2539 / S (report - SA collection)
1901 Spandau 5922 a KS (KCN report - SA collection)

1903 Spandau 1210 a (KCN report - SA collection)

1902 Erfurt 1133 K.S.4540 / S (limited pictures)
1902 Erfurt 9925 e K.S.9381

1900 Spandau K.S.10279 (Bob Ball, serial unknown)
1901 Spandau K.S.2177 S (serial unknown)
 
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I thought it appropriate to add Craig Brown's commentary regarding this subject, this was all in one long Gunboards thread that covered these two enigmatic variations, who Craig once said were among the most mysterious variations of the Imperial era (along with sniper variations)

He told me to gather up these three variations (KS, Bicyclist & a specific sniper variation - he was specific in type but I do not remember off-hand) and do a display was one of the things he wanted to accomplish.

I also posted my trends observations, only a couple are in anyway thorough examinations. Most are little more than reports or a series of 4-6 pictures. I saw none that showed the BC and only one that showed the matching bolt's acceptance. I did not go through all 1900-1903 Spandau's (non-KS) looking for these features to compare to Michael's example, but i can say with some certainty that there will be very few that we can make direct comparisons with... I am unsure whether a legitimate comparison can be made of the barrel code, very few early BC's are recorded and a number that are were re-barrels during the war.
 
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Great information Paul. It was very enjoyable to read all of that. I have two pictures for you Paul. There not much but one is a picture of rifles and the other ones are description there from the auction where I won my rifle in South Africa. I actually tried to win both but I failed. The one I failed to get was made by Erfurt and dared 1902.
 

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Thanks Michael! Very interesting, probably another Erfurt out there! I doubt the WMO example, probably a stock mating case. People are shy with these rifles, hard to get good pictures to really establish parameters.
 
Paul I remembered the Colonial service gewehr that was sold out of Rock Island auction back in 2018 was also an Erfurt made rifle. And you know damn sure if I find a matching K.S rifle it will be posted up here! That is my holy grail rifle I'm hunting for. Would trade off about all my scarce K98k rifles I own to have one of those rifles.
 
I think Julia's and RI offered one over the last few years, they are probably in the list I made. Quite a few are little more than "reports" or rifles with very few pictures or serious problems. I think it was Julia's that sold off a large German collectors estate and one might have been in it.

A KS (KG) or bicyclists G98 are the rarest of pretty much any 1898-1945 variation, especially in any collectible condition (which in general can only be determined if they are in somewhat original condition). Snipers, of course, are exceedingly rare also and I doubt many exist with original optics intact, but they are far more common than these other two in general.

Even pictures of these three variations are among the most valuable (expensive) items you can collect, sometimes exceeding the cost of a nice G98 or 98a.
 
Julia's-Sturgess collection 2013

*RARE SPANDAU 8MM GEWEHR 98 “KOLONIAL GEWEHR” RIFLE. SN 5750c. Cal. 8mm. Early Spandau Arsenal G98 “kolonial Gewehr” as used by German Southwest Africa (modern day Namibia) Colonial troops (Koniglichte Schutztruppe). In the white receiver marked crown over "SPANDAU 1900". Left receiver marked SN 5750c and Fraktur "Gew.98". Bbl marked with rifle SN and "S" bore diameter mark as well as early nitro and Imperial proofs. Rifle has features unique to the kolonial Gewehr, having a turned down bolt handle with corresponding stock recess and curved Lange rear sights whose marks uniquely start at 200 instead of the normal Gew. 98 400 metres range. All metal parts match, except for rear band which is marked "53". Hardwood stock is marked with rifle SN, several nice imperial proofs, and stock disc is unit-marked "S K.S.9671." which represents "Koniglichte Schutztruppe". Comes with sling swivel and early Gewehr 98 metal muzzle cover. Nice example of German Colonial rifle with provenance. PROVENANCE: Collection on Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess. CONDITION: Good with browning to the receiver and bolt body, bluing otherwise 80%. Bore is dark with strong lands and grooves. Stock is good with scattered handling marks and scratches. 4-53309 DW37 (3,500-5,500)
________________________________________


Has 4 pictures embedded in the text, can't post them here. Nice rifle from the looks of it.
 
1902 Erfurt 9925 e K.S.9381 w/6 pictures, mostly bolt & unit

RI 2018

B) Erfurt Arsenal Gew 98 Rifle
Serial #
9925 e
Manufacturer
Erfurt
Model
GEW
Type
Rifle
Gauge
7.92 mm Mauser
Catalog Page
163
Barrel
29 inch round
Finish
blue
Grip
Stock
walnut
Class
Curio & Relic Long Gun
Rating
OE WW
Rating Definition
OE - GOOD: some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned; lightly scratched, bruised or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.
WW - WOOD IS WORSE FOR THE PERCENT FINISH RATING GIVEN

Description
Receiver dated "1902".
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Paul I hope you don't mind. I updated and combined all the documented KS Gewehr 98's together.
Here is a great 1900 Spandau KS Gew 98. This comes from one of my friends that lives in South Africa.

Jordan I Imported KS Gew 98 from South Africa.
 

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Michael, that was my purpose, - this is your research thread, so you maintain the first page with the collective reports, as you see fit and the information that is important to collect is up to your discretion. This is an important subject for the forum and it is best someone that is most familiar with examples manage the process.

I am glad you suggested it!

Paul I hope you don't mind. I updated and combined all the documented KS Gewehr 98's together.
Here is a great 1900 Spandau KS Gew 98. This comes from one of my friends that lives in South Africa.

Jordan I Imported KS Gew 98 from South Africa.
 
Great thread. Im looking foreward to see how many Schutztruppengewehrs will be collected here in a few years.

Maybe i can contribute something as well.


1). I posted some infos about the Schutztruppengewehr here in early 2016. I will take the freedom to post them here again since they may be interesting:

I was reading an article about the first german carbine 98, the Einheitskarabiner 98. Since the K98 played an important role in german colonial warfare the author did a quick research on german colonial weapon in general.

And one topic that was interesting to him was the question when the bolt was bent on the Schutztruppengewehr 98. He quoted the former Schutztruppe regimental gunsmith Joseph Port who was in charge when the bending was done. Joseph Port wrote some letters in the 1950s about the life and the weapons of the Schutztruppe in german south west africa.
According to Mister Port the bolts were bent in 1908 in Windhuk. It was done due to the fact that the rifle would now fit the leather saddle holster much better. Port also wrote in one of his letters that the bending was a mistake. The troops didn't like the bent bolt on Schutztruppengehr 98. It was much harder and slower to work with then a regular straight G98 bolt handle. Port also remembered that the Kaiserliche Schutztruppe didn't used the new S-Catridge until the end of the Hottentotten war in 1907. Directly after the war they would upgrade their rifles to the new 8x57 IS.

My source is the DWJ (Deutsches Waffen Journal) 06/1984 Page 741 and 742.


2). I have collected data about kS98 bayonets with Schutztruppen unit markings for some years now trying to find a correlation between the KS number and the year on the back of the blade. So far i have rougly 60 pieces documented. The lowest number i have seen is "K.S. 17" (Erfurt build, marked W04). The highest number is K.S. 11471 (Erfurt build, marked W12). I think there was once a bayonet for every rifle and they would have the same unit marking stamped on them.


With kind regards

Vincent
 

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Vincent, First are you familiar with articles from the DWJ, perhaps have an index that lists them? I would like to get the issue Craig Brown was referring to, try to get the picture of entraining KS posted to this forum/thread. An index of articles related to the KS or Colonial Empire would also be a good resource to include here, I will see if I can record the start of a brief list and post it here, then as we gather more perhaps it can serve as a bibliography of sorts.

Second, if you would like to share your research here I can establish another research thread for you to work this bayonet angle, or you can see if Michael wants to incorporate your data in some way? Of course, research is not always shared publically, if it is private in any way, forget I suggested it. Sometimes hard-won research should remain private and that is up to the author/owner to decide, just if interested in maintaining such a project we can set up separate research thread if desired.

** generally I want to limit stickie threads to legitimate research projects, specifically to variations of special importance and limited knowledge/references, KS is both. I do want to avoid excessive stickies that make you scroll have way down a forum to get to new posts...

My source is the DWJ (Deutsches Waffen Journal) 06/1984 Page 741 and 742.


2). I have collected data about kS98 bayonets with Schutztruppen unit markings for some years now trying to find a correlation between the KS number and the year on the back of the blade. So far i have rougly 60 pieces documented. The lowest number i have seen is "K.S. 17" (Erfurt build, marked W04). The highest number is K.S. 11471 (Erfurt build, marked W12). I think there was once a bayonet for every rifle and they would have the same unit marking stamped on them.


With kind regards

Vincent
 
1904/Erfurt/6800/L256 (This carbine was used in German South West Africa and is marked Luderitzbucht 256 stamp on the stock.) This carbine comes from my friend Alan in South Africa.
 

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1900/Spandau/9450c/K.S.1623.S This KS Gew 98 comes from my other friend in South Africa. His name is Francis. This rifle is the highest serial number KS Gew 98. That I have recorded for Spandau 1900.
 

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