Third Party Press

G.41(W) ac43 Trials Sniper Rifle

Absolut

Senior Member
Many over here might had anyway read my old thread on this same rifle over in the sniper section: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?20564-AC43-G-41-trials-sniper-rifle

Recently a friend of mine asked me for a total of the rifle showing it with the original mount I was able to find, and I noticed I never did a detail shot showing the full rifle with this mount. So while having a few moments off today I took the rifle from its display and placed it in front of the DSLR for some pictures, which I decided I would be sharing on this subforum as well.

In the meantime I've also been told the Austrian Army has one of these rifles, complete with mount in their reference collection - I however did not get to see this one yet. I'm curious to find out more on it since the cad scope that is sitting in my mount was added by me and it is so far still unknown to me what the original scope in this mount was.

For those which have never seen it I would also recommend to take out "The German Sniper" by Senich and look up page 320 - he pictures G.41(W) serial 325a with the same scope base, but sans mount and cheek pad. I tried to picture why the cheek pad is necessary (and yes, I know the cad scope is sitting not properly alinged in the mount).

I'm curious to find out if Darrin Weaver will feature more on these rifles in his upcoming book, but the single time I corresponded with him it seemed there was no interest in these.
 

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Super cool rifle, interested to see what turns up in their reference collection. It was neat to take a look at the example at SOS last year too, couldn’t be many around.
 
That is fantastic. This form we have is like a world wide museum with
Curators that are second to none.
Love it. The Cheek rest is really neat to see.
What a unique example. You are very fortunate and I would think any complete
Reference book would want to include such items if the author new it existed.
...
Similar rifles during the time of development was
on select fire rifles 1937-40 the Russians mounted a PE optic in basically the same position on the AVS-36 but I have Not seen the avs-36 with a cheek rest for alignment, but I’m sure it was necessary. I had one and the AVS-36 had a slot milled into the left side of the receiver right at the rear sight and the male dove tail was an integral part of the mount. I unfortunately never got the optic and mount out of Finland even though I paid for it, long story.... I’m not sure if all AVS had this provision as I was only able to examine One other in person and it had the same slot.

Thanks for postin the pics and description. Amazing info.
 
Clearly some kind of experimental sniping system and a cool thing to see, especially with that cheek rest. As to putting it in Weavers book, it may be that he's wanting an unquestionably original mount example for the book (or has one already). It's clear these exist, but you have to admit your mount is questionable (for publication), with fake markings and it didn't fit without working on it (could be hand fitted as you surmise, totally understandable on experimental gear - the fit of that mount to that base it clearly not sniper rifle quality). To me, as an author, you can't take a chance on putting questionable items in a book. Now - if your mount/ring assy matches others exactly like the one in the museum you are golden, but still you wouldn't want an example with fake markings for publication. If that was the case I'd spend the money to have the fake markings removed.
 
Oh well, it could had been pictured without mount too, after all it is so far the only one known to have survived with the cheek pad too. I had considered getting the fake stamps removed with laser welding, but didn‘t bother too much on them. More important to at least have an original mount, even if it is with fake markings added post WWII, than to have none.
My goal was to share it with you here in this (sub)forum since it is an unknown variant to most to at least have it documented online and make people aware of this trials sniper.
 
So I have some honest questions, not at all trying to come across as a jerk but want to attempt to get some hard evidence for these. I greatly appreciate your desire Georg to post this for people to see. However, with that we have to be sure we are presenting it in a transparent manner. So with that in mind:

1. How do we know this G41 was fitted with a scope and mount by the Germans? Are there any specific marks or features on the rifle it self? As an example, when comparing a byf44 High Turret to a byf44 not fitted with a scope there will be other features found on the turret that are not present on the none scoped rifle. So does this G41 have any unique markings or features to support it being a legit sniper? I believe this rifle is legit but it would be great to compare to others to find some trends.

2. How do we know the scope mount is original? It already has fake markings, the color of the rings is certainly odd and the fit and finish of the mount to the base is terrible. It could be because they were not fitted to each other but I would expect it to be better then it is. Do we have detailed pictures of other authentic mounts to compare?

Thanks, interesting discussion.
 
Oh well, it could had been pictured without mount too, after all it is so far the only one known to have survived with the cheek pad too. I had considered getting the fake stamps removed with laser welding, but didn‘t bother too much on them. More important to at least have an original mount, even if it is with fake markings added post WWII, than to have none.
My goal was to share it with you here in this (sub)forum since it is an unknown variant to most to at least have it documented online and make people aware of this trials sniper.

Good point in regards to the cheek rest, yours may likely be one of very few with that still attached. The fact that Terril's has the screw holes is very interesting - I agree, it should be presented, maybe without the scope/mount on it at the very least. Your photos are so good that it's a drop in- trust me when I say it's difficult to get photos as professional looking as yours are, print ready. Thank you for sharing that here, perhaps it will spawn another one to appear, it may be somone has one and doesn't even realize it - that is why it's important to post things like this. Thank you again!
 
1. How do we know this G41 was fitted with a scope and mount by the Germans? Are there any specific marks or features on the rifle it self? As an example, when comparing a byf44 High Turret to a byf44 not fitted with a scope there will be other features found on the turret that are not present on the none scoped rifle. So does this G41 have any unique markings or features to support it being a legit sniper? I believe this rifle is legit but it would be great to compare to others to find some trends.
All known to carry this rail are in a very close serial range to each other, plus not only in different countries but also on different continents. This would outrule any post WWII experiments. Plus font on scope base is identical to the one on the rifle if I remember correctly, and stock inletting for the scope base is identical to rest of stock. I see no reason to doubt this being not WWII.

2. How do we know the scope mount is original? It already has fake markings, the color of the rings is certainly odd and the fit and finish of the mount to the base is terrible. It could be because they were not fitted to each other but I would expect it to be better then it is. Do we have detailed pictures of other authentic mounts to compare?
So far I only have seen one other scope mount - on the rifle sold by James D. Julia auctions. It was said the Austrian Army has one complete with mount, I‘ve not yet seen of this rifle. I bought my mount in Czech Republic from a reenactor where noone knew what this mount was when it surfaced prior to the rifle of Sturgess being sold. How would one without the correct rifle to it without pictures of such a mount would get the correct dimensions for it to fit the scope rail of a G.41? That is impossible. The red finish is just blueing, the color depends on basis material. I guess there were just different materials being tested. Fit is terrible since this is dovetail mount, we know this „problem“ from SSR mounts.
 
41 scopemount

... well.. you are killing me ole' buddy. i have had this rifle for about ten years or more. always looking for info & a scope mount. from what i have learned, there are at least five of these rifles, but i have only seen two scope mounts. my rifle has several features that i never mentioned; just so i could compare them to other such rifles. and;.. they do match the ones i have been able to contact the owners. this rifle is duffle cut under the band and in very good shape and matching. i received this rifle from the vets son in law after it had been shown to richard milton. i then showed this rifle to paul viens and bob landies back then. all agreed an original german prototype. i have a pretty good idea where the original scope mount is,, but unfortunately the two will never meet. ..... terrill .

scopemount 039 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/142843489@N06/
 
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Rifle of Terrill is 7624 no-letter block, mine is 9724, Senich pictures 325a (same rifle that sold at James D. Julia auctions and originates from the Sturgess collection, but in this auction with scope mount and scope) ... scope mount I have has serial 288 stamped on the inside of the dovetail, and if I see it correctly the scope mount that Dave posted pictures of has digits inside the dovetail as well (on the very left), but unreadable. Pretty sure the serials on the inside of the dovetail were originally matched to a particular rifle and all rifles were either in the ac43 high no-letter Block or early a-Block. I wonder what the rifle from the Sturgess collection has stamped on the inside of the dovetail mount, does anyone know who has this rifle now?
 

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The scope mount from Julia auction is 7624 serial number . This is the mount from Terrill rifle .

This mount is not for CAD scope . It's mount for DOW .
 
This mount is not for CAD scope . It's mount for DOW .

Based on what do you assume they were only issued with dow+? Just curious to know.

Terrill, at least you have the advantage to know that the matching numbers scope to your rifle is out there! And who knows, maybe some day you will be able to reunite the mount with your rifle. I wonder if it would fit tightly.
 
JP, did you buy the scope mount from the pics that Dave had posted? Or in other words, can you tell us what (rifle) serial is on this mount?
 
The fact that your matching scope mount is out there and you know where it is and can’t reunite it is what’s wrong with collecting. Collecting has this phenomenon where the guys care more about owning things than history and making things right. I’m sure some sniper collectors are good guys, I know some of them, but you see an instance like this and you just get sick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Agreed, that’s bullshit.

Terril. If it wouldn’t ruin any further chance, I’d say name and shame, but then you’ll never get it. If they are reading this thread they should stop being a piece of trash and sell the mount to the rifle owner.
 

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