Third Party Press

How did I do BNZ43 K98?

So do I have to pretty much disassemble the whole rifle to get the barrel out? I’ll take some more pictures after I dissemble.

Also, what is a Menzel stock?

From the pictures so far is this 1943 K98 is legit?

Also, any good tips on cleaning this rifle after firing corrosive ammo? I plan to clean the barrel first before going to the range then clean it after firing the corrosive ammo. Someone mentioned to pour hot water in the barrell after cleaning the barrell with windex. Im not sure if thats a feasible way to do it.

To get the action out of the stock you will have to remove both action screws and the barrel bands, as Flynaked said above, be careful with the custom pin holding in that rear barrel band.

Menzel is the stock maker. Many different makers and subcontractors produced stocks.

Rifle sure looks correct to me. A nice piece.

When shooting corrosive ammo pour hot water down the bore and then clean like you regularly would anyother rifle bore. The reason that corrosive ammo is a issue, is because the salts in the older style primers coats the bore after firing and will corrode the metal. Pouring hot water will flush these corrosive salts out. People say to use windex, they think that the ammonia in the windex will neutralize the corrosive salts. Which would be correct if modern windex formula had enough ammonia in it to do anything. But it really doesnt. Granted pouring windex down the bore would technically still flush the salts out. But water is cheaper. Once you have flushed the corrosive salts out just clean the bore like you would any other firearm you own. People often forget to also clean the bolt face, as this can also catch corrosive salts.

John.
 
Dresdner Tischfabrik Hermann Menzel, Dresden - ordnance code "c"

Menzel was a furniture maker before the war began, primarily office/business/corporate desk and table manufacturers. Some of their advertising list large firms as customers, I.G. Farben, Rheinmetall-Borsig, etc.

In 1938 they became part of the Saxony Group set up to supply components to BSW/Gustloff Wiemar. they supplied almost all the stocks Gustloff (337/bcd) used, but later supplied the ordnance system and increasingly their stocks are found on several manufacturers rifles. Their trade mark is M over T in a shield, which stands for "Menzel Tisch" (table)

The barrel code could tell you more about the rifle, - if the numerals before the shield are "44" then it is a 1944 dated barrel, the steel maker could be dlv (DEW or Deutsche Edelstahlwerke AG), they are very common steel suppliers to FN in 1943-44, dw/1 is possible too though the firm is unknown (I believe). Under the stock is the lot code, should start with ch and followed by numbers, ultimately the waffenamt defines the maker of the barrel, in this case, if FN, e/140. It should follow all the other markings and in this case should be above the stock. Really the problem isn't disassembly as much as poor quality photographs that lack definition (clarity).
 
To get the action out of the stock you will have to remove both action screws and the barrel bands, as Flynaked said above, be careful with the custom pin holding in that rear barrel band.

Menzel is the stock maker. Many different makers and subcontractors produced stocks.

Rifle sure looks correct to me. A nice piece.

When shooting corrosive ammo pour hot water down the bore and then clean like you regularly would anyother rifle bore. The reason that corrosive ammo is a issue, is because the salts in the older style primers coats the bore after firing and will corrode the metal. Pouring hot water will flush these corrosive salts out. People say to use windex, they think that the ammonia in the windex will neutralize the corrosive salts. Which would be correct if modern windex formula had enough ammonia in it to do anything. But it really doesnt. Granted pouring windex down the bore would technically still flush the salts out. But water is cheaper. Once you have flushed the corrosive salts out just clean the bore like you would any other firearm you own. People often forget to also clean the bolt face, as this can also catch corrosive salts.

John.

Thanks for the insights John!
 
Menzel was a furniture maker before the war began, primarily office/business/corporate desk and table manufacturers. Some of their advertising list large firms as customers, I.G. Farben, Rheinmetall-Borsig, etc.

In 1938 they became part of the Saxony Group set up to supply components to BSW/Gustloff Wiemar. they supplied almost all the stocks Gustloff (337/bcd) used, but later supplied the ordnance system and increasingly their stocks are found on several manufacturers rifles. Their trade mark is M over T in a shield, which stands for "Menzel Tisch" (table)

The barrel code could tell you more about the rifle, - if the numerals before the shield are "44" then it is a 1944 dated barrel, the steel maker could be dlv (DEW or Deutsche Edelstahlwerke AG), they are very common steel suppliers to FN in 1943-44, dw/1 is possible too though the firm is unknown (I believe). Under the stock is the lot code, should start with ch and followed by numbers, ultimately the waffenamt defines the maker of the barrel, in this case, if FN, e/140. It should follow all the other markings and in this case should be above the stock. Really the problem isn't disassembly as much as poor quality photographs that lack definition (clarity).

Interesting, so if I take out the stock there should be more information in the stock?
 
Interesting, so if I take out the stock there should be more information in the stock?

Yes. If you look at post #4 in this thread you can see the information we've been discussing. Serial number was moved earlier from behind the trigger guard on the keel to inside the barrel channel. He also shows some more of the barrel code as it wraps around the barrel under the woodline.

Another place you can find information is under the butt plate although I can't remember off hand if Steyr was still doing that at this point?
 
This would be one of the last rifles I’d take out to hammer on personally, so many shooter grade rifles out there already. It’s worth a lot more than you paid, but not if you take it out and split the wrist.
 
This would be one of the last rifles I’d take out to hammer on personally, so many shooter grade rifles out there already. It’s worth a lot more than you paid, but not if you take it out and split the wrist.

Amen to this sage advice!:thumbsup:
Many 98k stocks are cracked already on the inside of the stock behind the recoil bolt and thus it takes very few additional shots to crack and ruin the stock in the pistol grip area.
I was talking to a friend the other day and we were speculating that the 12th SS had the opportunity to capture quantities of the very HOT 8mm ammo made for the Bren LMG from the Canadians at Caen. Even if this is not the case that ammo was on the surplus market for a long time and some of it is still out there, still breaking and weakening stocks. If you're solidly planted at a shooting bench there's A HELL OF ALOT OF STRESS ON THE STOCK! Most collectors say you need a "hanger and a banger". Probably best that you use this beauty for a hanger. If this Menzel stock is laminated with the late war substitute white glue there's even a better argument for not shooting it.
 
Last edited:
The Canadian 8mm ammo is no "hotter" than any other 8mm spec ammo . I have fired a lot and it is right in light with German and Czech ammo . Between a friend and I , we have fire 100,000's of rounds through 1000's of different Mausers and have never cracked a stock . BUT we do make sure the action screws are tight and the action is set in the stock correctly . Loose screws and bad bedding is the cause of stock cracks . A lot of people do not know how to do the lock screw correctly and leave the action loose to line up the screws .
 
I'll agree with you Ernie that you 'can'with those caveats but as with previous poster that this should probably be a hanger. Also IMHO if you just HAD to shoot it go get some 'lawyer loads' like the 170gr. Remington. Super easy shooting and probably just as accurate for any range you'd most likely be at. AND it's non-corrosive too!
 
The Canadian 8mm ammo is no "hotter" than any other 8mm spec ammo . I have fired a lot and it is right in light with German and Czech ammo . Between a friend and I , we have fire 100,000's of rounds through 1000's of different Mausers and have never cracked a stock . BUT we do make sure the action screws are tight and the action is set in the stock correctly . Loose screws and bad bedding is the cause of stock cracks . A lot of people do not know how to do the lock screw correctly and leave the action loose to line up the screws .

O.K. Ernie
If you say so.:facepalm:
 
This would be one of the last rifles I’d take out to hammer on personally, so many shooter grade rifles out there already. It’s worth a lot more than you paid, but not if you take it out and split the wrist.

So, you recommend I dont shoot this? I may crack the stock if I shoot it?
 
So, you recommend I dont shoot this? I may crack the stock if I shoot it?

I think hes saying that the rifle is a collectors item and its over 75 years old. It has value as it is. If you want to shoot a german k98k it makes alot more sense to buy a cheaper rifle that doesnt have as much collectibility and value. A yugo rework, russian capture, romanian used rifles, restored sporter rifles...etc....


John.
 
Have to agree with not shooting it. Not worth ruining the value of a high end collector 98. Invest in a mix-matcher for target shooting.
 
It's crazy to attribute value to this rifle, the pictures are terrible and few, only a few show any detail at all, - this appears to be a bnz/43 SS contract, but a great deal of that hangs on the barrel (and the lack of a TF and SBO, it certainly isn't a bnz/43 army rifle), - bnz/43 SS contracts often do have FN barrels, most of which are 1944 made, but you'd be nuts to put a value on the rifle with these pictures and I bet very few would pay the going rate for one of these superman guns with these pictures.

If he isn't selling it then this doesn't matter, there is no need to evaluate the rifle, but to state that it shouldn't be shot because it is so valuable I disagree with. These are not rare, the distorted demand for them is driven by some perverted mystique regarding the SS and KL's (or police), these rifles when found are often in high grade, there is no reason to believe these were carried in numbers by front line units and certainly the Waffen SS could acquire better rifles in 1944.

The only sound reason not to shoot them are because they are poorly made...
 
It's crazy to attribute value to this rifle, the pictures are terrible and few, only a few show any detail at all, - this appears to be a bnz/43 SS contract, but a great deal of that hangs on the barrel (and the lack of a TF and SBO, it certainly isn't a bnz/43 army rifle), - bnz/43 SS contracts often do have FN barrels, most of which are 1944 made, but you'd be nuts to put a value on the rifle with these pictures and I bet very few would pay the going rate for one of these superman guns with these pictures.

If he isn't selling it then this doesn't matter, there is no need to evaluate the rifle, but to state that it shouldn't be shot because it is so valuable I disagree with. These are not rare, the distorted demand for them is driven by some perverted mystique regarding the SS and KL's (or police), these rifles when found are often in high grade, there is no reason to believe these were carried in numbers by front line units and certainly the Waffen SS could acquire better rifles in 1944.

The only sound reason not to shoot them are because they are poorly made...

Loewe,
I agree that to those who have been collecting for some time this is a garden variety 98k, but it's still a shame to have one survive this long only to have it become a broken piece of junk after just one day on the range.:behindsofa:
 
Nee Pictures

Yes. If you look at post #4 in this thread you can see the information we've been discussing. Serial number was moved earlier from behind the trigger guard on the keel to inside the barrel channel. He also shows some more of the barrel code as it wraps around the barrel under the woodline.

Another place you can find information is under the butt plate although I can't remember off hand if Steyr was still doing that at this point?

I finally had time to take apart the rifle. Shot 60 rounds as well and it was a joy.
 

Attachments

  • 0001F25C-254F-4916-BC72-294A51A41E55.jpg
    0001F25C-254F-4916-BC72-294A51A41E55.jpg
    316 KB · Views: 55
  • ABC733DA-C57E-4767-9A6E-25E8C242A7BC.jpg
    ABC733DA-C57E-4767-9A6E-25E8C242A7BC.jpg
    299.4 KB · Views: 47
  • 48AEDDBB-3612-46AF-B8DA-6555006F7740.jpg
    48AEDDBB-3612-46AF-B8DA-6555006F7740.jpg
    328.5 KB · Views: 56
Nice. Stock number matches and appears textbook to my eyes! Congrats. What ammo did you fire? I find modern US 'law loads' are pretty tame. I like 170gr Remington Core-Lokt. Priced right, very available (as 8mm Mauser is) and is pretty easy on the old girls.

core_lokt.jpg
 
Nice. Stock number matches and appears textbook to my eyes! Congrats. What ammo did you fire? I find modern US 'law loads' are pretty tame. I like 170gr Remington Core-Lokt. Priced right, very available (as 8mm Mauser is) and is pretty easy on the old girls.

View attachment 231081

Thanks man. I bought the 8mm PPU FMJ ammo from Classic Firearms at 75 cents per round. I bought some Egyptian ammo but 90% of then didnt fire.
 
I think the PPU is fine, just certainly hotter. I have both flavors of the PPU, the 196gr soft point and the 198gr FMJ. I believe the latter approximates the WW2 era Patronen s.S. pretty well. I also think the Yugos (Privi) have been making this mostly continuously for many decades updating the powder, primers and such along the way. I also noticed they now make a 'match line' which is new to me.

I usually by the Remington when they run their rebates. Probably paid around $.75 or a little less per.
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top