Third Party Press

How dishonest is the K98 market and the risk to the average Joe collector

C

copperking81

Member
I've always been interested in WWII K98s and have long wanted a non-RC, early S/42 or 42 rifle... preferably numbers matching but "close" to numbers matching would also be fine.

Every time I get the itch for one and begin researching / shopping around, I get discouraged by all the talk about fakes and dressed up rifles. So honest question... is it really that big of a problem in the K98 collecting world?

And yes I realize I can (and should) invest time in becoming a real expert capable of spotting subtle indicators. That said, I'm not interested in becoming a die hard K98s collector... I'm a gun enthusiast and I just want a good honest 42 without having to spend hours upon hours and years upon years sharpening my expertise to avoid getting screwed.

So with that in mind... does a gun guy like me, who wants a good honest K98 have a good chance of getting what he is looking for without getting screwed or are the fakes and mis-represented rifles just too numerous to risk it?

If having a PhD in K98s is what it takes to avoid getting taken advantage of, I'll just accept that and take myself out of the game.
 
There are a ton of fakes, refurbished, over cleaned etc rifles out there. I have been lucky because my purchases have been either from non collectors (found in grandpa's closest) or from a trusted friend on the forum. I also have my friend and at least one other seasoned collector (usually Hambone) look at whatever I am purchasing before hand. So far it has worked out, but I also look for deals. So if everything else fails I am never going to get hurt too bad. You can find an original matching K98k for $1,000 if you look hard enough, certainly under $1,500. Bolt mismatch even less and IMO you are less likely to find messed with bolt mismatched rifles.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
Just a couple simple suggestions. Spend a bit of time here looking around just to kind of make sure you know what you want and are familiar with what 'looks' normal. Some stuff is glaringly simple mistakes to spot despite what some hucksters will try to tell you.

Stay away from Fun Shows, Facebook groups and some of the other gun auction sites. Loaded with misinformation and bad guns. I'm not saying you CAN'T get a nice rifle at any of these places but without really knowing you're jumping into the deep end of the pool.. and with no lifeguard.

Speaking of the deep end of the pool I'd suggest staying away from snipers, SS and a few other specialized areas. Loaded with fakes and the prices are high. Like really high. Not for the faint of heart or pocketbook.

Finally back to the lifeguard part. Here is a great place to buy an honest rifle. Anything publicly posted will get plenty of scrutiny and if it's bad everyone will know. That said when you have an idea what you like and your price range you need to be a little fast. Some rifles last literally minutes (Bruce) but decent guns at a good value can stick around for hours or even a few days if it's common. Not because there's anything wrong with it but lots of these guys are either loaded with them or have niche collections now.

And if you're sure what you want you can post a WTB ad and someone will offer up something. Good luck!
 
Yes copperking there is reason for concern when searching for a decent unmolested example of a 98k rifle. Posts on this forum reflect the fact. For an honest example if I were you keep your eye open right here on the Trader section to avoid being ripped off. The guys here are one honest bunch and will steer you in the right direction for an honest example. Welcome and check in here frequently.
 
capt14k said:
There are a ton of fakes, refurbished, over cleaned etc rifles out there. I have been lucky because my purchases have been either from non collectors (found in grandpa's closest) or from a trusted friend on the forum. I also have my friend and at least one other seasoned collector (usually Hambone) look at whatever I am purchasing before hand. So far it has worked out, but I also look for deals. So if everything else fails I am never going to get hurt too bad. You can find an original matching K98k for $1,000 if you look hard enough, certainly under $1,500. Bolt mismatch even less and IMO you are less likely to find messed with bolt mismatched rifles.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Capt14k,
I've been trying to get ahold of you, but your inbox is full.

Pat
 
This site and WW2 Weapons constantly outing fakes is a good thing and a sign that the hobby is solid, not the contrary. If you want to be involved in a hobby which is fake free, you'll need to collect things like dirt clods, broken glass, cigarette butts, rust, etc. That's because things that are collectible have value and things with value are faked. The more value and desirability, the more fakery. Other than collecting dirt clods or dryer lint balls, the next best bet is to collect in a hobby where the guys involved expose fakes and insist upon integrity. That's the conventional attitude in K98k collecting, as is easily seen here.

So, in short, if you don't wish to devote time to learning and studying and exchanging information and building relationships with other collectors, then K98k collecting is not for you. You will get burned. But then again, no hobby with things of value in it is for such a person.
 
Lots of good advice. I would check the trader here several times a day. SOS/NGD will have some good ones but you will need to find one of the knowing members here to check it first. Also, Jack the Dog on Auction Arms, or whatever they call it now, is a pretty safe bet.
 
Books

You may want to purchase the Three Books on 98ks by Karem & Steves. They are the Bible of 98K rifles. BILL
 
Wow! Thanks everyone for the quick replies!

I'll take the advice and watch the classifieds on this site. Up to this point, I've been looking at the typical auction sites and gun shows. Being able to validate claims here through crowd sourcing opinions sounds like the way to go!
 
Hambone said:
This site and WW2 Weapons constantly outing fakes is a good thing and a sign that the hobby is solid, not the contrary. If you want to be involved in a hobby which is fake free, you'll need to collect things like dirt clods, broken glass, cigarette butts, rust, etc. That's because things that are collectible have value and things with value are faked. The more value and desirability, the more fakery. Other than collecting dirt clods or dryer lint balls, the next best bet is to collect in a hobby where the guys involved expose fakes and insist upon integrity. That's the conventional attitude in K98k collecting, as is easily seen here.

So, in short, if you don't wish to devote time to learning and studying and exchanging information and building relationships with other collectors, then K98k collecting is not for you. You will get burned. But then again, no hobby with things of value in it is for such a person.
Click to expand...

No doubt. I collect in other areas I feel much more comfortable in, but it's taken years of learning and experience to get there. I know I'll likely never get there in the K98 world, or at least not anytime soon, but that doesn't stop me from wanting at least one good rifle. That's the problem....
 
Research , Research etc you got to feel and look and smell, auctions sites are tough for even collectors as noted on pg 1

yep still possible to come up with cherry piece, they are out there. But funshows and online site sales are where you will find the fakes

go to funshows and look and observe , no need to touch the gun. No need to pick it up and examine it. After a while, you will be able to spot the differences. once you think you found a nice piece, ask to look it over closer

example I have looked at 100's & 100's of P-38's over 40 years. I have handled less than 10%, no need to fondle , I can tell by looking at them. no book, no website, or some renowned expert can teach you this stuff on line or in a book

they are only references for RESEACH

good luck
 
The three books by Bruce Karem and Michael Steves are the fully detailed, PhD way to go. If you don't want that kind of involvement, you can get a reasonable aptitude for spotting fakes by checking rifles you see for sale against same year/same code examples in the picture reference section on this website. There will be high-level fakes that can fool that level of aptitude though, but they are certainly rarer than the fakes you are able to spot by referencing the pic sticky section.
 
mb44kar said:
..you can get a reasonable aptitude for spotting fakes by checking rifles you see for sale against same year/same code examples in the picture reference section on this website.
Click to expand...

That's a good tip. Another is while live auction posting is a no-no you can ask specific questions about anything that might look suspect with an added snip. Only takes a few seconds to capture a portion of the auction photo and that won't run you afoul of the rules.
 
copperking81 said:
No doubt. I collect in other areas I feel much more comfortable in, but it's taken years of learning and experience to get there. I know I'll likely never get there in the K98 world, or at least not anytime soon, but that doesn't stop me from wanting at least one good rifle. That's the problem....
Click to expand...

Well, you know then that expertise takes time and study. I promise you that the K98k learning curve is much steeper today than when I got involved. Buy the books and hang out here and your GTG. If you just want a quick snag on a nice matching K98k then these guys can make that happen. You may have to pay the random buyer premium though. It’s like anything else; the world is round. Welcome, you won’t find a more helpful group of collectors.
 
Hambone said:
If you want to be involved in a hobby which is fake free, you'll need to collect things like dirt clods, broken glass, cigarette butts, rust,
Click to expand...


I've got some rust personally scraped off of Graceland's gutters. For sale cheap with a certificate of authenticity.
 
Picture, if you will, an attractive and well developed 13 year old girl who aspires to a career in acting.

She goes to a casting call in Hollywood, and finds herself in a room with Harvey Weinstein and Roman Polanski...unbeknownst to her, someone clandestinely dropped a couple Quaaludes in her can of Pepsi.

Everything starts getting blurry, and right before the lights go out, she sees Bill Clinton, Jeffrey Epstein, and Bill Cosby walk through the door.

Her chances of not getting raped and screwed in the butt are probably better than someone who buys a 98k online, from "Mitchell's Mausers", at an auction, or at a gun show if they don't know how to spot fraud and fuckery and don't have someone who does there to advise them.
 
Marcus said:
Picture, if you will, an attractive and well developed 13 year old girl who aspires to a career in acting.

She goes to a casting call in Hollywood, and finds herself in a room with Harvey Weinstein and Roman Polanski...unbeknownst to her, someone clandestinely dropped a couple Quaaludes in her can of Pepsi.

Everything starts getting blurry, and right before the lights go out, she sees Bill Clinton, Jeffrey Epstein, and Bill Cosby walk through the door.

Her chances of not getting raped and screwed in the butt are probably better than someone who buys a 98k online, from "Mitchell's Mausers", at an auction, or at a gun show if they don't know how to spot fraud and fuckery and don't have someone who does there to advise them.
Click to expand...

I don't like the sounds of that!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top