Third Party Press

Newbie Help with Purchase

jim8olot

Member
Hello - I am now in possession of a BCD Mauser that I believe is a Russian capture with no import marks. Backstory here is that for a year or so, on and off, I've always wanted one in my small and modest collection, so when I saw this one, I put in the lowest minimum bid, and happen to win it.

That said, I have not paid for it yet, and wanted to confirm a few things, as it's curious to me that there is NO DATE stamp. https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/ says that with FEW EXCEPTIONS - all k98's were marked with mfg. code and dates on top of receiver.

Description is as follows: The bluing and the wood are in very good condition. This one all matching numbers however there is no markings on the barrel bands,floor plate. The bore has crisp rifling but there is some frosting and darkness. This a non import marked example. Please keep a eye out as we have a bunch of these K98's to bring to the market!

I am interested to learn what I can from the great minds here, and here are all the pictures I have, an thoughts would be great, and if someone has an estimated value as well, that would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

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Stamped parts imply a date later than 1943, pic 21 shows last step in barrel protruding a bit more than “normal” from the upper band ( to my eye ) hinting that stock may not match the barreled action, or that a repair may have been made. From the 1000s of pics & a few dozen rifles I’ve looked at here & elsewhere, the relationship of the last step before the front sight and the front band & bayo lug is remarkably consistent across 40+ years, dozens of factories & countries. When I see a step more than a few mms or 1/8” ahead of the upper band, I think: “ not unmolested”. Others may have differing experience, but that’s what l see. If the price is right, & depending on how the rifle is presented to you, it may not matter....
 
I put in the lowest minimum bid, and happen to win it.

That said, I have not paid for it yet

I just checked what that was and almost choked. Please pull the ripcord and punch out of this.


wanted to confirm a few things, as it's curious to me that there is NO DATE stamp.

Ok yes that's an issue but it's the least of your concerns. I'll start with a few just off the top of my head. Bottom metal is ALL wrong. 100%. Should be a milled trigger guard made by Gebruder Brehmer and marked as such with 4 digit serial number. Floor plate, milled Astra made and marked with 4 digit serial. Bands... wrong. Waay too early for those as stated. Nearly 100% Astra supplied and marked as such, speed milled front with milled lower both with 4 digit serial.

Also where are all the Saxony Group parts?? Every bolt part would be from them and marked as such. Wrong, wrong wrong.

Fellas in the forum if I'm missing something or way off base, please let me know.
 
Are you sure there is absolutely no year? Could just be a 4 there for 1944, but I cant see the very bottom of the receiver.
 
Are you sure there is absolutely no year? Could just be a 4 there for 1944, but I cant see the very bottom of the receiver.

OP please don't think I'll giving you a hard time for your purchase.

Zepp, let's say even it is in fact a 4 for a '44 x block, most of what I detailed above still holds true. Some of the features shown on that rifle still don't show up until later. And again where's all the Saxony Group bolt parts? If they were present you'd think they'd be shown?
 
No problem!

OP please don't think I'll giving you a hard time for your purchase.

Oh no sir - I'm a straight shooter and don't like fluff - I appreciate it - also - I did request additional information but have not had a response yet, a few days ago - prior to the auction end - I asked for some details, so I am not opposed at all to NOT paying, it just happens that I found this forum AFTER I placed the bid....so thank you very much!!!
 
seller response was...

Are you sure there is absolutely no year? Could just be a 4 there for 1944, but I cant see the very bottom of the receiver.

I asked and his response was that there is not date, therefore why the picture didn't cover that area - I thought that we very strange!!!
 
Seller response regarding DATE has changed!!!

Seller has JUST NOW sent a pic of the receiver with a date stamping...what's up with that????

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OP please don't think I'll giving you a hard time for your purchase.

Zepp, let's say even it is in fact a 4 for a '44 x block, most of what I detailed above still holds true. Some of the features shown on that rifle still don't show up until later. And again where's all the Saxony Group bolt parts? If they were present you'd think they'd be shown?

Oh, I trust your judgement! I'd have to refer to the books on this one as I'm not that familiar with Gustloff ;-) I figured the seller might over look a '4' as a year since this wasn't as common as 2 digit year stamps. And it looks like he did as the following post shows in the full receiver photo...

Seller has JUST NOW sent a pic of the receiver with a date stamping...what's up with that????

View attachment 228082

Like I mentioned above, he probably didn't even know what that 4 represented...
 
This is what a proper and undicked with bcd4 kooks like. And note what heavy_mech referenced, Astra parts (lower case l) and milled floorplate. The rifle you’re looking to buy is a turd..

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KJ
 
I just checked what that was and almost choked. Please pull the ripcord and punch out of this.

Ok yes that's an issue but it's the least of your concerns. I'll start with a few just off the top of my head. Bottom metal is ALL wrong. 100%. Should be a milled trigger guard made by Gebruder Brehmer and marked as such with 4 digit serial number. Floor plate, milled Astra made and marked with 4 digit serial. Bands... wrong. Waay too early for those as stated. Nearly 100% Astra supplied and marked as such, speed milled front with milled lower both with 4 digit serial.

Also where are all the Saxony Group parts?? Every bolt part would be from them and marked as such. Wrong, wrong wrong.

Fellas in the forum if I'm missing something or way off base, please let me know.

So after a bit of radio silence I thought I'd bring this back around. Regarding my criticism above... too harsh? About right on? IMHO waay too much wrong here and waaay too steep a price tag. Those 2 rifles shown the other day from the shop in York, PA are both much better examples. I really liked that dou44 that Jack was able to do an in-hand inspection on much more AND it was several hundred less than this piece. Just asking for a sanity check here I guess?
 
So after a bit of radio silence I thought I'd bring this back around. Regarding my criticism above... too harsh? About right on? IMHO waay too much wrong here and waaay too steep a price tag. Those 2 rifles shown the other day from the shop in York, PA are both much better examples. I really liked that dou44 that Jack was able to do an in-hand inspection on much more AND it was several hundred less than this piece. Just asking for a sanity check here I guess?

IMO, I prefer to have detailed scrutiny like yours! I enjoy looking into various milsurps and have some knowledge on a lot of them, but K98s are my top one to research. And I will say out of all the different milsurps out there, K98s are the most screwed with. Both by bubba, humpers and hell, the Russians lol. Often times on Facebook groups, people post a K98 they just got or are thinking about getting and there are things wrong with it. Some people catch it and point it out, others tell them, "buy it!". Even the opposite, people post GOOD rifles and there is always someone trying to find something wrong even though there isn't.... for example, my byf 43 was posted and a guys said it's not matching. He was referring to the barrel code not matching the serial number.... I had to argue with him saying that's not supposed to be a damn serial number. And I know, it's Facebook..... but it is a commonly used social media platform that's quick to jump on. I always refer people here to get the right information because I know most of you guys know what you're talking about and won't BS or sugar coat anything.
 
Above rifle NICE!

Very much agree. So KJ example above being in the following letter block sets a very good example to compare as he correctly said. Without going into too much minutia other than what I'd already covered there are many very distinctive traits uniquely Gustloff. Why are none shown on the rifle in question? I know my thoughts on that. Beyond KJs excellent example there is another wonderful piece 3500 after his in the y block. Already lots of changes in materials, construction and finishes and STILL some of specific items I referenced are present. Even without the most excellent reference books close by an educated opinion can be formed just from studying these examples.

It always casts a shadow of concern for me when a seller takes lots of pictures of nothing (like a blank section of a stock or multiple pics of an unmarked butt plate?) and NO photos of parts that should be obviously marked. Why??
 
It always casts a shadow of concern for me when a seller takes lots of pictures of nothing (like a blank section of a stock or multiple pics of an unmarked butt plate?) and NO photos of parts that should be obviously marked. Why??

I notice this all the time as well. I've seen tons of photos of rifles posted and close up pics of the bolt are left out..... one of, if not THE most important part to look at...
 
..after a bit of radio silence I thought I'd bring this back around. Regarding my criticism above... too harsh? About right on

Back again. I'm kind of shocked that none of the more experienced guys have had anything to say. All on vacation? I really would like to have my a$$ checked one way or another. Right, wrong.. too hurtful?? I feel like I'm almost baiting for more feedback. Are we afraid of the seller? Seems weird that there's not more chatter on this one. Which seems chatter worthy IMHO.
 
The general assessment was correct, some of the comments were somewhat inaccurate or incomplete, but this rifle has problems...

The x-block of 44 was when serialing stopped on bcd/4's components, this is far too early to lack serialing on floorplate and bands. The TG-FP combo is also suspect, these are sometimes stamped around this range, but most are as stated, Gebr. Brehmer, when TG are stamped they are e/214 or qnw. The FP.s are almost always milled and serialed up to late x-block, this is way too early to drop serialing.

There are cases of serialed bands in the y-block, but very rare, only one confirmed case. As for the stock, I do not follow the fine nuances, but you would be super stupid to buy this rifle without seeing the internal serial (it should be serialed inside, most often with the suffix), of course it would also be Menzel made.

Anyway, I ignored the thread because it was generally accurate, how that is transmitted is less important than being accurate. I try to avoid confrontational answers until there is a reason for them, but there is no rule that would consider your post hurtful. I doubt any moderator would censor if it were.
 

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