CE 44 LSR Sniper - Gunshow Find
- Thread starter bodie221
- Start date
Sure does seem strange...
Someone went to all the trouble to modify the receiver to a thick wall
Construct a base that doesn't match any known reproduction base
Partially machine the relief cut under the base featured on legit LSR rifles
Reblue the receiver (the above cut is blued)
Precision grind the receiver to fit the base
Nicely inlet the numbers matching stock
And then refinish the matching stock, hack off the bayonet lug, and sell it as a clueless gun show attendee... I don't understand the motive here.
Someone went to all the trouble to modify the receiver to a thick wall
Construct a base that doesn't match any known reproduction base
Partially machine the relief cut under the base featured on legit LSR rifles
Reblue the receiver (the above cut is blued)
Precision grind the receiver to fit the base
Nicely inlet the numbers matching stock
And then refinish the matching stock, hack off the bayonet lug, and sell it as a clueless gun show attendee... I don't understand the motive here.
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
Unfortunately not to most of us that have been following K98ks and their variants. Happens more and more often actually.
Honestly not so much. See posts 14 & 18 about that specifically and check the supplied photos of an original. Not really even that close when you side by side them.
Again not really. From Sturmgrenadier's comments in Post #11 "that stock was routed improperly for an LSR"
Absolutely! The fun show is often the final dumping ground for pieces already outted that can't easily be sold on mass media. The motive?? Same as nearly every other time. GREED. Money. That's the motive 98-99% of the time. There may be a few who the thrill of fooling experts gets them off but it's almost always the rob job. Sorry to burst any bubbles. It's happened to many of us before.
Agreed, it certainly doesn't match any production LSR rifles as the many pictures show. And the rifle is clearly dated prior to any LSR production I've seen documented.
I can tell you for certain the seller was not motivated by greed. A fair price was paid but certainly not a price that would leave any profit for the seller considering the machining and engineering time that went into the project.
The rail cover is a puzzler as well. Strange to see that paired with a fake/repro.
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
Well that's odd but you didn't say what you paid and I didn't ask. You DID reference the sale of a fake Sauer LSR at auction and here's a response.. "Not a single word of the description claims it is an original sniper rifle, they only say it is a rifle in sniper configuration. And they also say it has been professionally restored or refinished. And they estimated it at $ 3000-4500. You're now up to make your own decision based on that."
It sold for $6100 even thought they practically told the bidders it was not legit. Any of those numbers you take looks like greed to me. People will kill another person for $20.
Absolut
Senior Member
Did someone in here notice the scope base has a 45° angle on bottom, and even more interesting, the stock is professionally inletted for this radius on bottom:
The cruce cutout for the base doesn't really fit the professional inletting for the partially left bottom inletting. I wonder if this rifle once was back-cut as with Sauer SSR sniper rifles and at a later point the base cut fully visible? At least the stock would suggest this.
Edit, when thinking a bit more on it ... why would someone do a cutout like this on the safety? Well, of course for the safety to clear the scope! But if it was an original German WWII scope, it would not had needed to be cut down this deep and only at the front part. So that rifle surely once had a scope mount, and it also once had a scope. And the scope that was fitted was not period original. Why someone would also remove the scope mount, no idea - maybe it was obviously incorrect either.
The cruce cutout for the base doesn't really fit the professional inletting for the partially left bottom inletting. I wonder if this rifle once was back-cut as with Sauer SSR sniper rifles and at a later point the base cut fully visible? At least the stock would suggest this.
Edit, when thinking a bit more on it ... why would someone do a cutout like this on the safety? Well, of course for the safety to clear the scope! But if it was an original German WWII scope, it would not had needed to be cut down this deep and only at the front part. So that rifle surely once had a scope mount, and it also once had a scope. And the scope that was fitted was not period original. Why someone would also remove the scope mount, no idea - maybe it was obviously incorrect either.
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I spotted this "LSR" and pointed it out to a good friend who then purchased it on the spot. Neither myself nor my friend were aware of the RIA LSR until well after the transaction was completed. The seller had no idea whether this "LSR" was legit or a repro and knew nothing about the rifle or military firearms in general. As the seller said, paraphrasing, "it belonged to my father who brought it home after being in the service and sat in our home as long as I can remember". Reading people and their body language is part of my job and I got no signs of deceit from the seller, he just showed a few pangs of regret as he parted with a family heirloom. Although that does still leave the window open for someone else to have modified the rifle long ago, after which it was acquired by the seller's late father.
Did someone in here notice the scope base has a 45° angle on bottom, and even more interesting, the stock is professionally inletted for this radius on bottom:
The cruce cutout for the base doesn't really fit the professional inletting for the partially left bottom inletting. I wonder if this rifle once was back-cut as with Sauer SSR sniper rifles and at a later point the base cut fully visible? At least the stock would suggest this.
I noticed this as did the owner of this "LSR" who is a second generation gunsmith. The modification appears very professional and seems to predate the stock being refinished.
flynaked
Repo Field Gear Collector
Georg, that was noted in post 16.
Can we please see closeups of the following: lower receiver flat, the cutout on the safety to compare workmanship, and the numbering on the back of the rail? Thanks
One thing that bothers me, the mounting sidewall isn’t flat, note the converging lines of the “in the white” area against the adjacent blued areas. Laying a machinist scale on edge across this flat, what does it look like?
Can we please see closeups of the following: lower receiver flat, the cutout on the safety to compare workmanship, and the numbering on the back of the rail? Thanks
One thing that bothers me, the mounting sidewall isn’t flat, note the converging lines of the “in the white” area against the adjacent blued areas. Laying a machinist scale on edge across this flat, what does it look like?
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pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
The receiver mounting surface appears to be precision machine ground flat, whether by bubba or by another party. Seemingly something done not by hand but rather with a industrial precision grinder found in many machine shops and used to bring machined surfaces flatter/more precisely than done with an endmill. Similar finish as done to the LSR on post 18, but this was clearly done after the rifle had already been blued. I know the consensus is the heat rings are on the receiver from welding but it might be worth another look just to determine how Bubba built the rifle, if for no other reason.
For what it's worth, the owner of this "LSR" is a second generation gunsmith and says he sees no signs of a weld and has seen too many welded guns to count. Everyone is wrong at some point but it makes ya think....
Bubba sure did go through a lot of effort to build this rifle with quality workmanship and must have made a conscious effort to build it different than documented production LSR rifles.
I'd think anyone with the machining skills and equipment to build a rifle like this would've had no problem tweaking their product to mimic a production LSR much more closely.
For what it's worth, the owner of this "LSR" is a second generation gunsmith and says he sees no signs of a weld and has seen too many welded guns to count. Everyone is wrong at some point but it makes ya think....
Bubba sure did go through a lot of effort to build this rifle with quality workmanship and must have made a conscious effort to build it different than documented production LSR rifles.
I'd think anyone with the machining skills and equipment to build a rifle like this would've had no problem tweaking their product to mimic a production LSR much more closely.
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Interestingly I'd say the rail shows zero signs of heat being applied. If anyone sees signs of it I'd love for them to point it out.
Grinding the mounting surface of the receiver after the receiver was blued could be a source of the heat markings on the receiver. Probably the most likely source - aside from the welding many seem so certain of having occurred.
Sorry for my ignorance, what is the lower receiver flat?
