Simson cutaway

I thought this was pretty neat, a friend of mine spotted this, then lost it, and luckily we found it again later! No clue if this was part of a complete cutaway rifle or simply for explaining the mechanics of bolt function and disassembly.

I agree, pretty neat, though I have heard these have been faked before (cut-aways in general, not necessarily bolts or Simson made parts), but I am not sure how you would tell the difference. In this case it would seem more likely to be authentic, it would be pretty reckless to ruin a good Simson bolt on something that isn't really worth the multiplier if it turns out well...

I do not follow cut-aways in general, but how common for it to be a production run that is selected? I mean you would assume these were special production, low serial or a unique serial? But this is a fairly late production run bolt. Maybe a flawed rifle was selected for the process? Someone familiar with 98k cut-aways might give clues to what is normal for later-earlier cut-aways, Storz probably has an Imperial example for comparison also, I will check.

It will be interesting to hear what someone more familiar with cut-aways has to say!

Not too sure myself other than a few observations of early 98k examples, where rejected and salvaged parts are used. The lighting is terrible but in hand the blue on the insides of the cuts is commensurate with the outside and has minor natural looking high edge wear at the sharp transitions to the mill cuts. I’ll try for some better lighting to illustrate this. Curious to see what you might dig up for other early examples! I don’t have Storz’s books for one. Also if it is a fake then someone lost their a$$ on labor as this was roughly 1/3 the typical selling price of a 98b bolt.

Storz doesn't seem to have a chapter or section dedicated to the subject specifically.. at the back of the book he does use a museum example (looks like an Amberg 5800/d block, doesn't go overboard with details, it is more about the mechanical aspects of the M98) to illustrate some commentary. He says manufacturer rejects or useless rifles ere selected for the purpose, so I guess not specifically manufactured for the process, which makes sense. The bolt illustrated is little altered, mostly through the sleeve area.

Looking at other examples, it seems the cut outs were varied and followed no strict pattern. It does seem that ERMA was contracted for a special run of cut-away rifles, 4 have been recorded (CB owned one, serial 130), one at APG (attached datasheet).

There is also a cut-away at West Point, Dietrich sent the pictures of it to an email group a decade ago, I will post the few pictures next with any useful commentary I saved.

Here is West Point's example, there was some discussion regarding this, but nothing worth posting text regarding, - mostly because it was behind glass and no one could examine it..

I also saved several Imperial examples from auctions or forums, some I suspect are frauds, though again how can one tell..

Here is a the NRA example

WMO 1914/early 1915

Probably forum or auction during 2012

Thank you for your efforts Paul those are very cool!

I know CB had three or four examples that were sold off at Amoskeag and they all went cheap.. Imperial and Nazi period.

Yes, I agree, he had four or so, there were pictures of him and PeterS at a MA show from I think 2009, he displayed them at the show. Looks like 3-5 examples, pictures aren't the greatest though.

mauser99 said:

I know CB had three or four examples that were sold off at Amoskeag and they all went cheap.. Imperial and Nazi period.

Click to expand...

A bit better lighting

Damn, thats really cool! It would be cool to know if it was part of an entire cut away rifle at one time...

They certainly allow someone to really see and understand how everything works...

Thanks for your pics too Paul, neat stuff!

Sure is convincing, I am sure it is authentic, when this would have been made (7000 e-block) things were happening that would make rearmament practical, which of course would necessitate expansion of the ordnance system and training.

I have never seen one of these before, but so much was destroyed 1919-1924 that it makes sense they would have made a few cut-aways for training ordnance men . Besides, I can't see a lot of upside to faking one of these, surely worth more than a typical 98b bolt but how do you value such a thing and look at all the work involved...delicate work too!

I have always had a thing for cut away's, thanks for sharing.

To add a little to what Loewe has already stated; from my experience, cut away rifles for the most part seem to have been selected at random. One would think a manufacturer would collect out of spec parts, or parts with various issues for whatever reason, but from what I have seen, most appear to be all matching in good condition, with appropriate inspections/firing proofs.

I have handled a couple cut-away examples at museums and elsewhere and can say that they are an art in their own right. I am very sorry to hear that Brown's rifles went so cheap. I would have loved to have one.

The one cut-away that I was able to handle the most, was an 1893 action that Mauser sent to Springfield Armory, shortly after the United States adopted the Krag rifle. I followed in John Wall's foot steps, who was local and had much more available time to do research! The curator told me that Mr. Wall had found some supporting documents that the action was sent to "rub it in our noses" what we could have had. While I was there I was not able to find these documents, but hope to on my next visit.

To further add to the discussion, as I mentioned, these are quite literally an art. I have done a couple for myself, using junk parts, to study and measure better some of the mechanics of mauser actions. Getting the cuts made, to intersect with the necessary details, without damaging or losing integrity or function, is challenging to say the least. To make it look good is even harder!

Anyone that wished to fake one, would be in my opinion, an idiot. They would take a potentially nice, valuable rifle, and very likely ruin it. If successful, they would at best, only sell the rifle for what it was worth as an uncut example! I have rarely seen cutaways bring a vast premium, usually they bring as much as a nice rifle in comparable condition.

Thanks for sharing Clay, and thanks for posting some of your saved examples Loewe.