Dealer Re-Marketing Again - New Level of Absurdity

This is a live auction link but posting this to illustrate the level of absurdity going on.
The rifle original sold on March 4, 2020 for 1600.00 + premium which puts it less it right
around 1900.00 shipped give or take a few dollars.

Enter "OLD-STEEL" who simply wants to double his money on the turn.

This would have been a good entry level matched rifle for a new collector.
I call this a 'Brown' gun, with lots of patina and aging. Definitely not a
top tier rifle but this chump wants mint++ pricing for an average rifle.

Sorry but this is one of my pet peeves and makes me sick. Remember the
starting bid is 4000.00! This is more than 2x what this example is worth.

Unreal...


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/864771367

You mean OLD-STEAL?


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But, but, buit...it has a bayonet and frog, RG-34, sling, cleaning rod and muzzle cap!!!

He won’t get that, unless he has a shill.

Hambone said:

He won’t get that, unless he has a shill.

Click to expand...

And that wouldn’t surprise me!!


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Some people have NO conscious.

The bolt root numbers just doesn't look quite right. The block letters are good but not the numbers.
I can see file scratches not milling machine tooling mark's. If you look really closely at the
bolt root there are two telltale file scratches. On at the front of the base of the root and
Another at the rear edge almost scratching the bolt body. I think the root where the number
Was got filed but not where the block letters are. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just looking at this through
Machinest eyes. Wouldn't the same person have stamped both the serial numbers AND the block letters?
If so it doesn't make sense that one set would be so shallow and the other deep.

Current thread

This is a good honest matched rifle...well worn but not beat.
I passed on it due to metal condition (patina, etc). Being the auction was 30 miles from my
house it was on the radar. The auction house is a big family run concern that runs sales
in multiple counties in NE Ohio.

bruce98k said:

The rifle original sold on March 4, 2020 for 1600.00 + premium which puts it less it right
around 1900.00 shipped give or take a few dollars.

Enter "OLD-STEEL" who simply wants to double his money on the turn.

Click to expand...

Just another wanna-be of roughly a dozen give or take white collar criminals who are a cancer to this hobby. I've said it before and stand by my statements. They all variously lie, distort, inflate and insinuate things not in evidence including the originality rarity, provenance, hyperbole and investment quality much of which at any given ad is the legal equivalent of a lie.

He's 'owned' this piece a solid month Bruce. He NEEDS to get his money back!!

This just happened in reverse. Guy buys one of these over-priced gems. Less than 90 days later tries to sell it (don't know his 'why') for several thou less than he just paid and can't get a sniff. Wanna bet this has and will happen many more times over regarding these investment grade jewels??

I agree with Bruce. Its a totally matched rifle that seen action. But way over priced.

The problem with this is there are two trains of thought. One the collector and the other from a business stand point.

Being collectors we all want deals and want an even playing field across the boards but this isn't realistic.

From a business standpoint this guy is in business any firearm is a commodity doesn't matter if its a k98 or luger , colt ect. He is out to make a profit. Same as any company out there. I think there is a lot of speculation with certain things certain items ect. It does suck spending all our free time trying to find items only to find something and hope no one else sees it. This is a fantasy theory that is getting worse as time goes on. There are tons of smaller auctions out there and even the smallest now are on line and are searched daily by tons of people I often see these smaller venues bringing stupid money for items. I haven't bought anything from my local house in years due to this. Also, the commissions they charge and tax and fees are getting out of line. All we can do to protest is stop buying from them.

Nothing is going to stop what has happened here if it did would be to stop free market and can adopt communism and that's not a good scenario also.

The price he is asking may not seem realistic but, its his to ask in a free market. I also feel a robust market and a incline of price of K98's is only a benefit to those who own them. Unfortunately with any collectable the market is very unstable.
A peak now could mean a heavy drop later as interests change. Just like the Luger market.

We always say collect what you like because you like it not what its worth or what it might be worth. That way either way feast or famine you own what you love.

There have been a lot of posts lately baulking at what people are paying for items. If the items are legit the money is theirs to spend freely it's a sign of a robust market for these items. A good thing for us. My2cents.

Yep this argument comes up all the time... 'it's capitalism'. Actually IMHO it's vulture capitalism. Of course it's their 'right'. No argument there. Doesn't mean it's necessarily 'right'. Because of humans prior actions this is codified illegal in many realms of life. These guys will suck the last nickle out of the dying body and not give one shite. This flies in the face of their 'support' of the hobby or the classification as 'historically significant' or 'collectible investment'. This is disingenuous at best and a bold faced lie at worse. They collectively couldn't give 2 shits if they killed this hobby tomorrow as long as they got theirs. You might argue that's too harsh. I disagree.

If Old Steel can make 100 percent margin on his inventory, more power to him, but I think it's a stretch. A 30-40 percent margin is probably closer to average, but I guess he can try to shoot for the moon before coming back down to reality.

Current thread

Hey I for one don't mind reasonable re-marketing.
The key point being "reasonable".

This auction is a good example of price-gouging.
We all suffer from the "PRE 98" syndrome and when more opportunist dealers
get in on the fun, we all pay.

Here is the basic problem with this whole situation and I have seen it first hand.
I see more and more flippers like this paying top dollar for said rifles and then
expect to double their investment?

These guys are pricing entry level collectors out of the market and that is sad.

While anyone is free to 'ask' anything they want in a free market economy (unless that commodity is regulated for cause) I'll argue this.

Let's say you're the chump who just dropped $5k on a $2000 (maybe) piece based on lies, distortion, carnival barking, hyperbole and wild stories of it's museum grade investment quality only to find out shortly you can't even get the $2000 back out of it???

How would you feel? Can ANYONE in good conscience argue this is 'good' for anyone but the seller?

heavy_mech said:

Just another wanna-be of roughly a dozen give or take white collar criminals ... They all variously lie, distort, inflate and insinuate things not in evidence including the originality rarity, provenance, hyperbole and investment quality much of which at any given ad is the legal equivalent of a lie.

Click to expand...

This is the world in which we live today, we just happen to be really close and intimate with K98s. I'm not condoning, just pointing out the reality of today is that lotsa folks are trying to separate "us" from our money, or simply trying to get "ahead". Think bigger... big pharma, health insurance companies, misinformation about tobacco, vaping, plastics, coal mining; used cars, car repair at the dealer. robo-calls. It's pervasive... as civility, fairness, and honesty continue to be eroded.

Current Thread

Thank you Bruce for continuing to post this sort of “good example” AND the price being at questionable $.
Separate issues both current & cogent.
I find it very informative & instructive, 2 good reasons for being here.

Don’t stop!

Thanks!

The best thing about Free Markets, is they are self correcting. My guess is this auction will expire with zero bids. The seller can list again at a more realistic price, or he will set on inventory he can’t sell.
I try to follow pricing on Standard Modells, there are three on gunbroker that have been there for months never getting a bid because they are overpriced. One has a starting bid of $3500 and I think it has been there for a year, not one bid. I think this actually helps sellers who list similar rifles with reasonable prices, as it makes their offerings look like bargains.

The thing I find most irritating is these remora who swim around, sucking up all he free information they can from us, pretending to be "collectors", etc., when what they really are is jobbers, "brokers", in it to purely profit. They compete with us, snatch up BIN opportunities and purchase opportunities of us collectors, then turn around and reward our free assistance to them by trying to break it off in us with their markups. They do this on their C&Rs and they don't pay taxes, all the while being parasitic exploiters of our good will and free information. If I could identify their accounts here I would ban them. If I knew for sure the ones doing it I would say that reporting them to ATF for dealing with a C&R / FFL03 and IRS for tax evasion would strike me as more funny than a rat thing to do, even though rats are bad. Any of you guys who ID an account like that here, please PM me, and I'll ban them and block their IP.

Yes, there is a "free market" but this is also a private site, thus also a "free market". They can parasite, we can ban them. Further, such parasites compete with legitimate dealers who play by the rules (federal, state, and ethical) whom these parasites also harm. We benefit from good dealers.

runner said:

The best thing about Free Markets, is they are self correcting. My guess is this auction will expire with zero bids. The seller can list again at a more realistic price, or he will set on inventory he can’t sell.
I try to follow pricing on Standard Modells, there are three on gunbroker that have been there for months never getting a bid because they are overpriced. One has a starting bid of $3500 and I think it has been there for a year, not one bid. I think this actually helps sellers who list similar rifles with reasonable prices, as it makes their offerings look like bargains.

Click to expand...

I agree with you totally.. These things will self correct.. One thing that turns people away can be price. The whole "k98's are too expensive so I'm not going to bother". This is a real thing and it will bring prices down. G/K43's had a major spike and they have softened from that peak. G41w's and m's also. Once people stop buying the price has to adjust to a point where they start biting again.

I personally think its far more important to focus on deceit and fraud than the markup of honest items. What has really driven the price up is supply and demand. So few nice items coming to market due to all the good stuff is kept. Its a self created crisis if you want to look at it that way..

If you look at the buffed up turd byf42 that sold for 4k plus I cant recall the actual price this 42/40 seems like a deal..



There are many facets to this topic and discussion.