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Greetings from a new French nember

Guillaume d'Orange

Senior Member
Hello everyone,

I'm into gun shooting with a soft spot for history. I am French and I've bought in March this year a CE 42 "Mod 98". A soldier left it behind 75 years ago in a village nearby and I got it from the local gunsmith : it's all-matching (except the cleaning rod) with its original sling.

I already own a 1917 Kar 98a from Erfurt and a copy of Dieter Storz's book about Gew and Kar 98.

I hope to learn things about my rifle and perhaps post some interesting stuff.

Cheers,

Guillaume
 
Bienvenue Guillaume. Good to have you. Look forward to seeing your ce 42 and hearing how it was discovered. The cleaning rod would be an unnumbered part.
Kind regards,
HB
 
Bienvenue Guillaume. Good to have you. Look forward to seeing your ce 42 and hearing how it was discovered. The cleaning rod would be an unnumbered part.
Kind regards,
HB

Hi Hambone,

Thanks for welcoming me. The rod is numbered, but does not have the same number as that of the rifle. By the look of its level of oxydation, it is likely that it stayed with the rifle for decades.

I'm in the process of cleaning the rifle (mainly remove dirt and rust) so that it can live another 75 years. I will probably post and ask about how to clean this or that part.

By the way, it is a 6387m with an Erma receiver (stamp 280), Sauer-made rear sight (stamp 37) and the barrel code is a Sütterlin S and D (no serial).

Looking forward to talk to you later
 
Welcome from Indiana looking forward to seeing your rifles especially the 1917 kar98a erfurt. I'm also surprised, I thought you French collectors only like Lebels and berthier rifles and carbines!

Actually like collecting those pieces too have a really nice lebel I need to get posted up!
 
Hi Hambone,

Thanks for welcoming me. The rod is numbered, but does not have the same number as that of the rifle. By the look of its level of oxydation, it is likely that it stayed with the rifle for decades.

I'm in the process of cleaning the rifle (mainly remove dirt and rust) so that it can live another 75 years. I will probably post and ask about how to clean this or that part.

By the way, it is a 6387m with an Erma receiver (stamp 280), Sauer-made rear sight (stamp 37) and the barrel code is a Sütterlin S and D (no serial).

Looking forward to talk to you later

use coarse cloth ( cotton is possible) with oil, throw out the steel wool and do not use it to "Clean" up this Firearms and do not treat the wood
 
Hello everyone,

I'm into gun shooting with a soft spot for history. I am French and I've bought in March this year a CE 42 "Mod 98". A soldier left it behind 75 years ago in a village nearby and I got it from the local gunsmith : it's all-matching (except the cleaning rod) with its original sling.

I already own a 1917 Kar 98a from Erfurt and a copy of Dieter Storz's book about Gew and Kar 98.

I hope to learn things about my rifle and perhaps post some interesting stuff.

Cheers,

Guillaume

Welcome, you have the right place for helpful info on your k98. I have several that were all GI bring back. Not sure when they stopped numbering the cleaning rods but don't think yours would have it. I have an early Luft. BYF41 that has a matching rod. However I would imagine that most may have switched with another when they were cleaning. Maybe you can help me with a g43 I have that's marked for post war French border police (see pic)

Do you know what the letter "R" means?
pix702785300.jpg
 
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Welcome, you have the right place for helpful info on your k98. I have several that were all GI bring back. Not sure when they stopped numbering the cleaning rods but don't think yours would have it. I have an early Luft. BYF41 that has a matching rod. However I would imagine that most may have switched with another when they were cleaning. Maybe you can help me with a g43 I have that's marked for post war French border police (see pic)

Do you know what the letter "R" means?
View attachment 237684

Hi k98dave,

Switching rods was rather common as soldiers needed 3 of them to clean a barrel and not avoiding mixing rods was probably their lesser concern.

Have you posted pics of your g43 on the forum ? I don't know who told you that your weapon was used by "French border police" but would be glad to consider evidence in this regard. My personal opinion (not supported by documents or evidence) is that your rifle has been in use in French Indochina (you may have figured this out) and then imported or brought to the USA.

Here is a thread on the french forum with a picture of a guy in jungle fatigue with a G43:
http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t180736-gewehr-43-en-indochine

The reason why I'm talking about Indochina is that I cannot fancy "French border police" ("Douanes" in French) being issued with a semi-auto rifle in mainland France hunting cigarette smugglers. On the contrary, having G43 to hunt Vietminh seems appropriate.

Regarding the "R", I cannot tell. Perhaps, you shall offer Ian "Gun Jesus" McCollum to review your G43 :laugh:

Cheers!
 
Welcome from Indiana looking forward to seeing your rifles especially the 1917 kar98a erfurt. I'm also surprised, I thought you French collectors only like Lebels and berthier rifles and carbines!

Actually like collecting those pieces too have a really nice lebel I need to get posted up!

Hi Warrior1354,

I don't have the Kar98a with me (spending lockdown in the countryside). But I can tell you it is numbered 2056 (no block), all-matching and the original blueing on the receiver.

I guess you're teasing me about the Lebels and Berthiers. What's right is that in France up until 2013, old military bolt rifles were regulated the same way as semi-auto rifles (which is stringent). Since then, they are on a equal footing with the average hunting rifle. The government did that mainly to get these rifles out of closets and have them registered (there may be hundred thousands undeclared WWI and WWII guns hiding).

In addition to that, the Shooting Sport Federation has created in 2005 a discipline called "Tir aux Armes Réglementaires", where people compete with military issued firearms.

So there's definitely a surge of interest in historical rifles here (and I see that some American youtubers are quite interested into these including French military rifles).

Regards,

Guillaume
 
use coarse cloth ( cotton is possible) with oil, throw out the steel wool and do not use it to "Clean" up this Firearms and do not treat the wood

Hi sprat,

That's noted. Browsing the forum, I have seen that cleaning is a controversial topic (which was to expected). I guess I'm of the "shooting/practical" kind, I will just remove dirt and rust to take the rifle to the shooting range. However, seeing comments from purists had me think twice about the future use of this rifle : I have already ordered a spare firing pin and will probably use this one rather than the original one.

Cheers!
 
Welcome!!! Not to get off topic but since you mentioned them, I've only recently come to truly appreciate French rifles and have really become enamored with the automatics. I don't speak French but have been translating some of the manuals for these old war horses and I'd like to run about two or three sentences by you for proper translation if you wouldn't mind because sometimes online translation jumbles things so bad you can't make sense of it.




 
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Welcome!!! Not to get off topic but since you mentioned them, I've only recently come to truly appreciate French rifles and have really become enamored with the automatics. I don't speak French but have been translating some of the manuals for these old war horses and I'd like to run about two or three sentences by you for proper translation if you wouldn't mind because sometimes online translation jumbles things so bad you can't make sense of it.





Hi Wilhelm,

Good to know that there is interest for French rifles in the US. No trouble finding 7,5 x 54 mm MAS ? These are some nice MAS 49 you have here. Have you bought the "Chassepot to FAMAS" book ?
You have a lot of manuals ! You can send me your sentences in PM.

Best Regards,

Guillaume (french for Wilhelm or William)
 
Hi Hambone,

Thanks for welcoming me. The rod is numbered, but does not have the same number as that of the rifle. By the look of its level of oxydation, it is likely that it stayed with the rifle for decades.

I'm in the process of cleaning the rifle (mainly remove dirt and rust) so that it can live another 75 years. I will probably post and ask about how to clean this or that part.

By the way, it is a 6387m with an Erma receiver (stamp 280), Sauer-made rear sight (stamp 37) and the barrel code is a Sütterlin S and D (no serial).

Looking forward to talk to you later

Guillaume,
Sounds like a cool rifle. Look forward to seeing it. If you look close at period pictures many K98ks do not have the rods in them. They got mixed up and there is not much doubt that the rod in it was the one that was in it when it left the German soldier's hands. Cleaning is controversial, but we have discussed it at length. The main things I've learned over the last 35 years:

1) Ballistol.
2) Clean the bore and coat it with thin film of ballistol or CLP.
3) No steel wool or steel; bronze wool only if needed.
4) The only thing that should shine is the bore
5) Remove active rust, but again, not to the point of shine
6) Best to leave the stock alone, at most a light wipe. If the stock has heavy dirt and grime, lightly wipe it, then come back with a light wipe of Howards or even Ballistol to remove the dirt, nicotine, dust, grease, etc.
7) Finally: It lasted this long without anyone cleaning it, if you store it in a climate and humidity controlled environment it will look like it does today long after we are long dead and gone ;) The museum rule of conservation: do nothing which cannot be undone.

Scroll down to the "cleaning" area of the miscellaneous section of our reference thread:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?3881-Tools-I-find-Useful-for-the-Kar98k

Check out this forum for reference:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?45-Picture-Reference-Index

Kind regards,
HB
 
Hi k98dave,


Have you posted pics of your g43 on the forum ? I don't know who told you that your weapon was used by "French border police" but would be glad to consider evidence in this regard. My personal opinion (not supported by documents or evidence) is that your rifle has been in use in French Indochina (you may have figured this out) and then imported or brought to the USA.

Here is a thread on the french forum with a picture of a guy in jungle fatigue with a G43:
http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t180736-gewehr-43-en-indochine

The reason why I'm talking about Indochina is that I cannot fancy "French border police" ("Douanes" in French) being issued with a semi-auto rifle in mainland France hunting cigarette smugglers. On the contrary, having G43 to hunt Vietminh seems appropriate.

Regarding the "R", I cannot tell. Perhaps, you shall offer Ian "Gun Jesus" McCollum to review your G43 :laugh:

Cheers!

Great picture, I see several other weapons as well.

The comment that the "R" stamp was for immediate post war rifles issued to French border guards or police was found posts on here and other sites. I'm taking it with an open mind until like you stated documents or evidence comes available if in fact there is any. I was puzzled as why the letter R though. I don't doubt these were used in French Indochina. Just makes for interesting discussion and a research project if I can find a place to start. I will look into anything I can find. I got this to restore and shoot on occasion not as investment as its certainly has seen use. If you should even come across any info on this or can direct me to someone that may know more please let me know OK?

Thanks
 
Great picture, I see several other weapons as well.

The comment that the "R" stamp was for immediate post war rifles issued to French border guards or police was found posts on here and other sites. I'm taking it with an open mind until like you stated documents or evidence comes available if in fact there is any. I was puzzled as why the letter R though. I don't doubt these were used in French Indochina. Just makes for interesting discussion and a research project if I can find a place to start. I will look into anything I can find. I got this to restore and shoot on occasion not as investment as its certainly has seen use. If you should even come across any info on this or can direct me to someone that may know more please let me know OK?

Thanks

One thing that came to my mind after posting is that G43 was the answer to the Russian SVT-40 (mainly used for sniping).
In the French version of the Wikipedia article about the G43, there is a mention that it was used for sniping by Foreign Legion in Indochina:"Durant la guerre d'Indochine, les snipers de la Légion étrangère utilisèrent des G43 munis de lunettes de visée. "
However, there's no source to support this statement, but you will have noticed that on the pic posted on the french forum there's a scope on the weapon. If yours has a scope mount, it could be a lead.
 
One thing that came to my mind after posting is that G43 was the answer to the Russian SVT-40 (mainly used for sniping).
In the French version of the Wikipedia article about the G43, there is a mention that it was used for sniping by Foreign Legion in Indochina:"Durant la guerre d'Indochine, les snipers de la Légion étrangère utilisèrent des G43 munis de lunettes de visée. "
However, there's no source to support this statement, but you will have noticed that on the pic posted on the french forum there's a scope on the weapon. If yours has a scope mount, it could be a lead.

No scope, but they all had scope mount rails as part of the receiver forging. I'll keep looking to see what info turns up.
 
No scope, but they all had scope mount rails as part of the receiver forging. I'll keep looking to see what info turns up.

Hi k98dave,
Being conscious of my ignorance of G43, I watched today the Gewehr 43 video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUjPeAgvf3U) Ian Mc Collum did years ago and guess what : the same "R" stamp as yours. He said (5:51) the rifle was used by "french police forces after war". You should send him an e-mail asking where he got that.
 
Hi k98dave,
Being conscious of my ignorance of G43, I watched today the Gewehr 43 video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUjPeAgvf3U) Ian Mc Collum did years ago and guess what : the same "R" stamp as yours. He said (5:51) the rifle was used by "french police forces after war". You should send him an e-mail asking where he got that.

Thanks, That marking looks exactly the same. I sent an inquiry to him at ....contact@armamentresearch.com which is listed as a contact. I'll let you know what response I get. I'm sure he doesn't just pull facts out of thin air and would have some evidence of his statement.
 
Guillaume,
Sounds like a cool rifle. Look forward to seeing it. If you look close at period pictures many K98ks do not have the rods in them. They got mixed up and there is not much doubt that the rod in it was the one that was in it when it left the German soldier's hands. Cleaning is controversial, but we have discussed it at length. The main things I've learned over the last 35 years:

1) Ballistol.
2) Clean the bore and coat it with thin film of ballistol or CLP.
3) No steel wool or steel; bronze wool only if needed.
4) The only thing that should shine is the bore
5) Remove active rust, but again, not to the point of shine
6) Best to leave the stock alone, at most a light wipe. If the stock has heavy dirt and grime, lightly wipe it, then come back with a light wipe of Howards or even Ballistol to remove the dirt, nicotine, dust, grease, etc.
7) Finally: It lasted this long without anyone cleaning it, if you store it in a climate and humidity controlled environment it will look like it does today long after we are long dead and gone ;) The museum rule of conservation: do nothing which cannot be undone.

Scroll down to the "cleaning" area of the miscellaneous section of our reference thread:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?3881-Tools-I-find-Useful-for-the-Kar98k

Check out this forum for reference:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?45-Picture-Reference-Index

Kind regards,
HB


Hi Hambone,

Thank you very much for the detailed summary and sorry for the late answer.
I've read threads about cleaning and the topic is a real can of worms.

I also took the time to take some pics of the cleaning I've done so far, for example, on the bolt or the muzzle band.
On these parts, I've used steel wool 000 with plenty of armistol (french equivalent of ballistol) to soften the rust. I know steel wool is bad, but my parts were fairly rusted and the blueing was already significantly off.
I would never probably never use steel wool (of any grade) on a rifle with an excellent bluing and only light flakes of rust.

For the stock, I've attached some pics as well. When I removed the barrel for the first time, dry earth was inside. As you can see, there's still some grime on the inside edges where the receiver shall stand. I think I will leave this "patina" as it has not hurt and probably won't hurt metal.
As you can see the pistol grip is almost black, I'm tempted to wipe the grease with a soft sponge, water and neutral soap. Laminated wood can withstand that without being stained, I guess ?
Once done, I will lightly wipe the stock with armistol.

Finally a pic of my cleaning rod, I don't know where the former German owner hit it so hard but he maimed it !

Cheers!
 

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