Third Party Press

Turd Alert > FAKE Short Side Rail

A fake byf43 Short Side Rail? Nooooo..... that's not possible. People don't fake Short Side Rails. Do they?
 
Mauser did not make short side rails, it’s literally that easy.
Theoretically there could be the chance that the SS scrubbed a Mauser made Gew98 receiver or used a Mauser Standard Modell for SSR conversion, so technically it is not correct to say that on a Mauser made receiver there could not be a SSR sniper rifle. But of course not with a byf coded receiver.

Aside of that: HWZ marked mount is SS, so wrong for the Army SSR sniper this one is trying to resemble. And a correct military scope would not have focal adjustment.

Finally, for future reference since I'm sure it will turn up again and the pics will be deleted from Simpson website: byf43 serial 5612 l (not sure on the small L?) with Short Side Rail mount is not a factory made sniper rifle, but set up post WWII as a sniper.
 
Mauser did not make short side rails, it’s literally that easy.






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It is certainly disconcerting that a "reputable" collectible firearm seller would post this rifle for 10k.

I wish they employed one of the experts from this forum.

Pursuing legit K98k rifles is a much more difficult task than collecting, say M1 Garands, Colt Pythons, etc.
At least it is for me. It's a veritable minefield out there, what company can you trust?
 
Turd Alert > FAKE Short Side Rail

It’s not really that collecting 98k’s is more difficult, it’s just that there is more variations therefore more to learn. If you shop snipers I will agree it’s more difficult. I can assure you dealers know more than their listings say. They need sales to make money and they know the intelligence level of their customer base, which they exploit. I’m not naming any specific dealers, it’s a general statement about the business.

Anyway, it’s a fools errand buying short side rail snipers. 95% are either outright fakes or enhanced in some way. I just assume every one I see is fake, and I’m correct 95% of the time. I’ve never suggested to anyone who has asked my opinion to buy one. Ever. Much to Dave Roberts dismay.


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It is certainly disconcerting that a "reputable" collectible firearm seller would post this rifle for 10k.

I wish they employed one of the experts from this forum.

Pursuing legit K98k rifles is a much more difficult task than collecting, say M1 Garands, Colt Pythons, etc.
At least it is for me. It's a veritable minefield out there, what company can you trust?

I promise you that the minefield is quite worse in US military firearms like Garands, M1911A1s, and carbines. In fact, I find K98ks the easiest of military collectible rifles to authenticate. If by difficult you mean an area which takes study, time, and learning, then I guess K98k collecting is “difficult”. However, if you wish to collect things that have value, particularly value which increases over time, then if you don’t want to be ripped off then any such hobby would be deemed “difficult.” Collecting things of no value, such as dirt clods, things found in roadside ditches, broken glass, etc. is not difficult, nor is collecting reproductions and humpjobs. If you don’t want to take time to learn, when all the information you need is provided in the K98k book series and freely here, then K98k collecting is not for you. If you like learning, research, and collecting cool rifles, then you’re in the right place and right hobby.
 
If you don’t want to take time to learn, when all the information you need is provided in the K98k book series and freely here, then K98k collecting is not for you.
Could also read as
If you don’t want to take time to learn, then collecting is not for you.
Since this applies to basically everything.
 
So too bad someone decided to modify what appears to have been a really nice rifle. Just like any form of collecting when the values rise the more people will spend trying to fake something. I used to be in Colt Collectors Assoc. and attend their shows. You should see what goes on there!:googlie
 
I am enjoying the learning process. The books are great. Can't imagine all the time and effort that went into them


I guess what I meant is I am already familiar with other types of firearms so I can spot the bad ones easily enough. I just need more study time with these.
 
Talking about SSR’s there is a base/mount/scope and case package on auction right now. I don’t want to break the rules so I won’t post a link but with the fuzzy pictures available, I wouldn’t bid 6k USD+ on it.
It very well could be legit but I’m always dubious of SSR and SS items of which this is both. I’m sure experts better than myself can chime in.
 
Aside of that: HWZ marked mount is SS, so wrong for the Army SSR sniper this one is trying to resemble.

You have made this comment in the past that (HWZ Mounts is only SS) . I would like know do You have any proof and or documentation that proves Your statement to be factual or is this just Your personal opinion ?? .

I ask because , You made a similar matter of fact state about the Locking Levers with Cutout . Here is Your Quote (Additionally the locking lever on the mount has the cutout to see where the pin in the base goes into - (this is a feature of post WWII made versions of the SSR mount.) Which was proven to not be correct .
 
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You have made this comment in the past that (HWZ Mounts is only SS) . I would like know do You have any proof and or documentation that proves Your statement to be factual or is this just Your personal opinion ?? .
This is my personal opinion which is based on observation and discussion with other collectors. I did not find the document yet stating which marking to be used with which organization, otherwise I would had shared this one. The thought-to-predate the Ajack SS DG Hensoldt scopes come with HWZ marked SSR mounts. Ajack with lower serial numbers are on HWZ marked mounts. Ajack with higher serial numbers are on large WEIHRAUCH marked mounts. And the early Wehrmacht SSR mounts also are with the large WEIHRAUCH marked mounts; these are distinguishable by the much different font and font size on the mount whereas the SS Dienstglas scopes all have the same font used on the SSR mounts. Therefore my understanding is that only SS (in my context here SS always includes Police) used HWZ marked mounts.
May I therefore on the counterpart ask whether you have any proofs for HWZ marked mounts being used on a rifle not being SS/Police, in specific, on a Sauer K98k rifle? Really enjoying this discussions because these in depth details help a lot learning from other persons opinions and research and can help establish theories.

I ask because , You made a similar matter of fact state about the Locking Levers with Cutout . Here is Your Quote (Additionally the locking lever on the mount has the cutout to see where the pin in the base goes into - (this is a feature of post WWII made versions of the SSR mount.) Which was proven to not be incorrect .
I'm a bit confused. Proven to not be incorrect means I was proven to be correct in my statement. Is that what you wanted to say?

To summarize, basically I said that the cutout in the locking lever is something that I'm aware of post WWII (unused) SSR mounts with bases that have this cutout. And if you read precisely my quote, I'm saying that this cut is a feature of post WWII made mounts, nothing more and nothing less. You replied you know of all matching rifles that have this cutout and depot repair and therefore you believe it to be a depot repair.
So far I have not seen an original picture from WWII showing this modification. Therefore we can argue whether the cut in this lever was a depot repair/enhancement/etc. and I wouldn't necessarily say this is a detail which would identify something as an obvious fake. It just means one has to pay great attention to the rifle because it could well indicate using an unused/NOS/post-WWII SSR mount to either restore or fake a SSR sniper rifle, and I'm putting these at higher chances than being a depot repaired SSR sniper rifle.
 
That’s ridiculous. Someone paying that for that deserves that rooting. The problem is someone trying to sell one will believe it’s worth that.

Yeah. While the DAO a fabulous gun and I really value and enjoy it, that is an insane price. Some smarmy sarcasm.
 
May I therefore on the counterpart ask whether you have any proofs for HWZ marked mounts being used on a rifle not being SS/Police, in specific, on a Sauer K98k rifle? Really enjoying this discussions because these in depth details help a lot learning from other persons opinions and research and can help establish theories.

That is not how it works Georg. When you present a theory, as you have done, the burden is on you to prove it correct. It is not our job to prove you wrong. Dave has merely asked you to prove your theory correct.
 

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