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Thread: 8mm Mauser: 318 or 323 diamater?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernie8 View Post
    Actually most of the above is incorrect . The P-88 ammo had a .3188 dia bullet . The later S ammo had a .321 dia bullet [ and may be what the op was seeing ] , and the later sS ammo had a .323 dia bullet . No German military rifle EVER used a .318 groove barrel . The Gew-88 barrel sizes were first year - .314 - .3208 , after 89 they went to .311 - .3208 to deepen the rifling , then in 1896 1/2 they went to the Z barrel that was .311 - .323+ . NO GEW-98 EVER had a .318 barrel as they were never used and after 96 1/2 .323 became the standard . The S ammo was designed to be used in the Gew-88 . 1905 has nothing to do with ammo or barrel size . German civilian barrels did use around a .307 - .317 [ + / - ] barrel with a .3158 dia bullet loaded shorter in a cartridge which was different from the P-88 ammo and was used pre WWI and had nothing to do with any treaty . All of this is clearly stated in original German documents , and found in real rifles and ammo .
    Interesting, verifiable sources?
    Munchener 1953

  2. #12
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    As the last sentence states .

  3. #13
    Senior Member haak48's Avatar
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    Default "S" ball

    Just another fact. The "S" ball projectile has nearly the same engraving length as the "sS" heavy ball. Also, because of the difference in profiles, the "S" bullet engages the lead sooner. It's cupped base allows it to upset and fill the bore, a plus in worn or deeply grooved barrels. Picture one shows the bore riding surfaces of the two projectiles, picture two shows that surface in relationship to the lead (two "S" ball, 1 sS Regards, JH
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  4. #14
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    Your photo shows how little of the S bullet is in the case . Yes the hollow base allows gas seal with minimal bore friction , to give the most velocity with the least pressure . A lot of my Z bore Gew-88 rifles and many of my early Gew-98 rifles have grooves up to .325 , but with no wear on the bore [ lands ] which are still a tight .311 . They were pretty consistent on their bore size as that is what was important and the easiest to machine [ bore ]. The grooves were less important as the hollow base bullet would seal and they were harder to make exact as the rifling cutting wore quicker and was cut , not bored . As long as the minimum [ .323 ] was met , a little more did not hurt .

  5. #15
    Senior Member haak48's Avatar
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    Default CZ bore sizes

    I really covet my ZB-26 barrels that are broad land patterned. Besides have a ball seat much shorter than the standard throat in the German pattern, the bores are much tighter, running .3090/.3100". Occupation G24 (t) & 33/40 rifles that used existing stocks of these barrels are often marked: 7.88 or as small as 7.85. Grooves still run .3235/.3240. Even heavy worn, these barrels will still continue to shoot well with the sS load. Most heavy worn standard pattern barrels will give poor results, until the S ball loading is used, which can extend the service life several thousand more rounds. Regards, JH

  6. #16
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    Good point . I have found different loads shoot better in my Czech barreled rifles compared to my German .

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    Default info on some other caliber/barrels/bullets?

    ernie,

    what can you tell me about Argentine M1909s in 7.65 x53 ? In particular, rifles made under the 1909 contract & made by DWM in 1910, the cavalry carbine & engineer’s rifle. Are the Argentine-made cav carbines made in the early ‘50s an different in terms land & groove dimensions from the German-made rifles? My interest lies w/the shorter 1909 Argies in particular.

    thanks,
    Munchener 1953

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    I have done most of my research with Gew-88's and 98's . The original 1891 Arg rifle was the German narrow land rifling with the grooves running around .314+ for the long .310 dia rn bullet bore riding . They tended to like long flat base bullets . The 09's seem to be a little smaller at .312 . I have never checked my late made rifles and carbines . I got them to shoot well during load testing and never did much else . I have been sitting on ONE box of the very old Speer .313 dia 210 rn bullets , I guess I can make that a new shooting test with some 91's . In the 1950's Speer really knew how to make bullets for the old military rifles , that has become a lost art now . I also did a really good study of French 8mm Lebel bores and loads . 35 different Berthiers and Lebels measured and tested .

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