Third Party Press

Handguns used by Schutztruppen and other overseas units

MichaelWC

Senior Member
This information is actually pretty exciting to me. To top it all off. I won a K.S. marked M83 Reichsrevolver from a South African auction.
The C96 in the photos below is marked on the butt, 'Orts Polizei Behörde' or local police authority, and 'Keetmanshoop' in German South West Africa. Information from http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk

More information I found about handguns used in the colonies and Boxer Rebellion.
Mauser C96 (Broom handle) pistol
?/Mauser Oberndorf/?/1052 Keetmanshoop
(Orts Polizei Behörde' or local police authority, and 'Keetmanshoop' in German South West Africa.)

Roth-Sauer model 1907 Pistol
?/Roth-Sauer/ C 61/LP 237
?/Roth-Sauer/C 161/LP 72
?/ Roth-Sauer/C 205/LP 106
?/ Roth-Sauer/C 212/LP 123
?/ Roth-Sauer/C 273/LP 184
?/ Roth-Sauer/C 377/LP 161
?/Roth-Sauer/C 378/LP 228
?/Roth-Sauer/C 408/LP 55
?/Roth-Sauer/C 419/LP 92
?/Roth-Sauer/C 559/LP 109
?/Roth-Sauer/C 706/LP 209
?/Roth-Sauer/C 737/LP 179

1883 der Revolver or Reichsrevolver
1894/Erfurt/1953/1.O.R.4.3 (This pistol three sets of unit markings. Two are from East Asian service- "1.O.R.4.3" (4th East Asian Infantry Regiment, 4th Company) and "O.A.F.2.18" (2nd Battery, East Asian Foot Artillery). The third is "M.G.A.1.30" for the 1st Machine Gun Abteilung of the Prussian Army.)
?/Erfurt/272d/OA1 MK1 (This pistol has two sets of unit markings. The first is "OA1 MK1" for "Ostasiatisches Field-Artillerie Regiment Batterie 1 Muntionskolonne 1." (East Asian Artillery Regiment, 1st Battery, 1st Munitions Supply Column). The second marking after it is a later issue marking "143R.9.5.." for the 9th Company of the 143rd Lower Alsatian Infantry Regiment ("4. Unter-Elsässisches Infanterie-Regiment. Nr.143") which served on the Western Front during the First World War.)
?/ V.C.S*C.C.H. Suhl/26L/K.S. 211
 

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Mike, that M83 Reichsrevolver was quite a score. Looking forward to you getting it in hand for proper pictures!

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I'm hoping I can get it faster now. That it's been declared antique.
Yeah, let's hope. Considering the last order M83s from Suhl was in March 1896, I don't think there's any question it's safely antique.

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Congratulations on the acquisition! It is good you are able to save these from their fate in S.A., - another "success story" of democracy (mobocracy) at work...

Again Craig would have enjoyed your discovery and analysis, be sure to update with pictures when it arrives! I was thinking of thinning out some of the research threads, unsticking some that are less active or too narrow in specialization to make room for more formal projects, - I was thinking of a pre-P08 pistol series (Reichsrevolvers and C96's in one thread, others if appropriate, sort of like the 71'sand 71/84 thread). While the P08 is well known and possibly the most "trended" Imperial firearm, the others are less well known - or at least that I have seen. Schroeder wrote hiswell known Gun Report "musings" but I am not familiar with any books on the subject (I am sure they exist, the C96 has long been popular), so a research thread revealing some trends and introductory information would be good if someone wants to take the task on.
 
Sounds good to me Paul, feel free to take down the 88 TG thread to make room, we only got maybe 15 responses. Disappointing when I know several members who have many of them.

As far as I know, the gold standard on Reichsrevolvers is Heinrich Harder's book Der Reichsrevolver. It's a fantastic resource that I reference often. Heinrich also frequents Still's forum. The only caveat is that it's German language with some limited English chapter summaries. I used it to gather some production data for Mike in case they tried to challenge the "Antique" status.

While I'm primarily a rifle guy the M79/M83 are my primary handgun focus.

Very excited to see some quality pics Mike! Let me know if you need any help with takedown or operation.

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I was thinking of a couple that could be cut loose to sink... while we often get caught up in a project or theory, it doesn't necessarily mean we should bother everyone else with it. I also want to limit the stickie threads nailed to the top of the forum, while a little scrolling down is no big issue, some tidying up is always a good idea generally; my little office needs a monthly tidying putting books away, - as time goes on I have little piles of books and files laying around and cats knock them over or I waste time searching shelves for a book in a pile. Same with forums, I think too many "nailed" threads are messy and take away from the ones that do serve a worthwhile purpose.

Anyway, if you or anyone reliable wants to take on a research thread for RR and C96's - or other modell's - let me know. Obviously someone familiar with the subject should be chosen, I am not sure if such a project has enough variables to conduct a trends post. With rifle contracts you have acceptance patterns, FP patterns, cyphers, stocks, bolt patterns, but maybe the pistols are less well suited. Unit markings I assume but are there other features that could be trended profitably?
 
I was thinking of a couple that could be cut loose to sink... while we often get caught up in a project or theory, it doesn't necessarily mean we should bother everyone else with it. I also want to limit the stickie threads nailed to the top of the forum, while a little scrolling down is no big issue, some tidying up is always a good idea generally; my little office needs a monthly tidying putting books away, - as time goes on I have little piles of books and files laying around and cats knock them over or I waste time searching shelves for a book in a pile. Same with forums, I think too many "nailed" threads are messy and take away from the ones that do serve a worthwhile purpose.

Anyway, if you or anyone reliable wants to take on a research thread for RR and C96's - or other modell's - let me know. Obviously someone familiar with the subject should be chosen, I am not sure if such a project has enough variables to conduct a trends post. With rifle contracts you have acceptance patterns, FP patterns, cyphers, stocks, bolt patterns, but maybe the pistols are less well suited. Unit markings I assume but are there other features that could be trended profitably?

Thank you Paul. When you say C96. Do you mean the Prussian contract pistols or the regular pistols in general? Oh also I have updated Schutztruppen Research thread with all of the Handgun data I have found.
 
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I was thinking of a couple that could be cut loose to sink... while we often get caught up in a project or theory, it doesn't necessarily mean we should bother everyone else with it. I also want to limit the stickie threads nailed to the top of the forum, while a little scrolling down is no big issue, some tidying up is always a good idea generally; my little office needs a monthly tidying putting books away, - as time goes on I have little piles of books and files laying around and cats knock them over or I waste time searching shelves for a book in a pile. Same with forums, I think too many "nailed" threads are messy and take away from the ones that do serve a worthwhile purpose.

Anyway, if you or anyone reliable wants to take on a research thread for RR and C96's - or other modell's - let me know. Obviously someone familiar with the subject should be chosen, I am not sure if such a project has enough variables to conduct a trends post. With rifle contracts you have acceptance patterns, FP patterns, cyphers, stocks, bolt patterns, but maybe the pistols are less well suited. Unit markings I assume but are there other features that could be trended profitably?
I'm happy to own a Reichsrevolver M79 and M83 analysis.

To me, I would be looking at a few things:

1)Model (M79, M83, M83 Double Action, M83 Double action w/extractor, 9mm "Baby")
2)SN
3) Maker (Erfurt, Suhl, Mauser, Sömmerda)
4) Acceptance (Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon, Württemberg, or Commercial)
5) Unit markings
6) Grips (Smooth or checkered)




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.. broomhandle ...

.... that is a very nice looking C96 MAUSER ,,,, a little wear and tear gives it some character and been there look ...! ......
 
Well done Michael very well done you have gotten some awesome pieces for your collection. I look forward to seeing what other information you come across about handguns used in South Africa. It really is incredible with some of the pieces you have acquired over the years. I am still waiting to hear back from a few of my contacts in Germany I'm hoping they come across some more information for you. Of course I'm trying to gather as much as I can too.
 
How it is structured is up to the researcher, inclusion of commercial as well as military production is up to the author as well. Just start a a thread stating "RESEARCH PROJECT - title" and give me time to see it, you might create all the categories by reserving pages as the 71 & 71/84 thread was organized, doing them all at once (have them ready beforehand so you can reserve the needed pages loading first w/o someone posting in-between - I lock the thread while doing mine, but that isn't possible in this case) When I see it I will stickie it and you can service the content at your leisure... the only thing needed is to get all your first category threads/posts reserved so as the author you can flesh it out later (make sure you take enough).

No pressure on taking this up, but i think it would be a worthwhile project for someone who collects these pistols.

I'm happy to own a Reichsrevolver M79 and M83 analysis.

To me, I would be looking at a few things:

1)Model (M79, M83, M83 Double Action, M83 Double action w/extractor, 9mm "Baby")
2)SN
3) Maker (Erfurt, Suhl, Mauser, Sömmerda)
4) Acceptance (Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon, Württemberg, or Commercial)
5) Unit markings
6) Grips (Smooth or checkered)




Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
 
Well done Michael very well done you have gotten some awesome pieces for your collection. I look forward to seeing what other information you come across about handguns used in South Africa. It really is incredible with some of the pieces you have acquired over the years. I am still waiting to hear back from a few of my contacts in Germany I'm hoping they come across some more information for you. Of course I'm trying to gather as much as I can too.

Thank you Jordan. It's gonna take a while before I get pictures. When it does arrive. I will definitely take a lot of pictures of it. I think the best person to contact about a C96 research project thread is Mauro Baudino. I'm actually friends with him on Facebook so I will contact him.
 

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