Third Party Press

Matching 1915 CGH War Horse

chrisftk

Moderator
Staff member
Hi all,

This one popped up on an online ad and the seller was about 45 minutes from me so I jumped right on it.

It's a total war horse, with most of the finish worn away, but appears 100% factory matching and has an original (unnumbered) cleaning rod and sling. This sling is very rough and no discernable markings. The stock markings are very worn and not legible. I initially thought maybe old sanding, but the more I handle it, the more it seems honest wear.

The rifle is late "a" block with a dual barrel code. My hypothesis is a Bismarckhütte supplied, but finished by Sauer & Sohn?

No other oddities to report, but here is the data sheet:

1915 C.G. Haenel Suhl

Receiver: 8355 a
Barrel: 8355 a code: S&S BJ 32
Bolt body: 8355a
Bolt shroud: 55
Cocking piece: 55
Safety: 55
Firing pin: 55
Extractor: 55
Follower: 55
Bolt stop: 55
Floorplate: 55
Triggerguard: 8355
Front screw: 55
Rear screw: 55
Rear sight leaf: 55
Rear sight slider: 55
Stock: 8355
Handguard 8355
Front band: 55
Rear band: 55
Bayo lug: 55
Buttplate: 8355 ("a"suffix--faint-- on top)
Front sight: 55
Cleaning rod: unnumbered
Sling: No legible markings



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Very nice! CGH is my favorite next to Mauser, and this is a very nice example.

Sauer did most of Haenel's barrel work including much of their commercial rifles. Not all, but S&S is very common on their rifles.
 
Great pickup! We do love a good warhorse. Decent matching Haenel's are tough to find, much less a 1915 one. In my experience the walnut stock markings stay pretty distinct unless sanded or subjected to moisture/water, I would go with the latter on yours. Is the rod an armorer's?
 
Very nice! CGH is my favorite next to Mauser, and this is a very nice example.

Sauer did most of Haenel's barrel work including much of their commercial rifles. Not all, but S&S is very common on their rifles.
Thanks! I was just having the conversation with another member about that this morning. Based on what we recalled from old threads, the firms with the consortium each had a specialty.. Sauer handled barrels, Haenel the receivers and Schilling much of the stocks. The small parts were also handled by specific firms. As my friend noted, mostly just educated guesses given the general rarity of nice matching Suhlers, but if the circumstantial evidence makes sense....

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Great pickup! We do love a good warhorse. Decent matching Haenel's are tough to find, much less a 1915 one. In my experience the walnut stock markings stay pretty distinct unless sanded or subjected to moisture/water, I would go with the latter on yours. Is the rod an armorer's?

Thank you! There is no number but a very faint proofmark. I assumed armorer based on that. I have a similar one in my Hannover build. The surface/patina really match the rifle, so they have been together a long time.

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Super

Nice survivor...can't be many matching rifles like that around...Maybe it is just me but I see places where the proofs were on the side. Wood can expand and make them faint.
 
That is an awesome rifle Chris especially being part of the Suhl consortium and from the year of 1915. Very tough to locate and it's all matching. Thank you for the great pictures as well.
 
That is an awesome rifle Chris especially being part of the Suhl consortium and from the year of 1915. Very tough to locate and it's all matching. Thank you for the great pictures as well.
Thanks buddy-- I know nice Suhlers aren't easy and we need all the data we can get to trend these.

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While not my area of interest I really like this too. As said there can't be too many of these around matching like this. I really appreciate the been there/done that look of this rifle. Great score! :thumbsup:
 
Beautiful ‘been there’ rifle! Looks like it took a very light sanding at one time, but very long ago, possibly an early battlefield pickup, cleanup. I would have definately picked this one up. Is the bore in like condition to the rest of the rifle? Thanks, Rob
 
Beautiful ‘been there’ rifle! Looks like it took a very light sanding at one time, but very long ago, possibly an early battlefield pickup, cleanup. I would have definately picked this one up. Is the bore in like condition to the rest of the rifle? Thanks, Rob
I was thinking sanding at first too, but the more I handled it the more I think moisture damage and wear.

Bore is actually much nicer than the exterior. Sharp rifling and only a little bit of frosting. Fritz really took care of his rifle.

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Thanks buddy-- I know nice Suhlers aren't easy and we need all the data we can get to trend these.

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A wonderful example, these are always hard to find original-matching and I agree we need all the data possible to trend these better(especially the component acceptance trends); the basics are known, I wrote an article on them a couple of years back:

https://gewehr98.wordpress.com/2018/03/30/suhl-consortium-gewehr98-production/

Though trends have evolved well since then more is needed, - interestingly that article is a lesson for me, I had started writing it before I finished the trends and I had been caught up in the tendency to go with preconceived theories and or beliefs (I already had a theory), but when I went to double-check my "facts" (conclusions) against trends I found out they didn't support one another... luckily my research and writing isn't tied to my livelihood or "career" so I was able to correct my conclusions to correspond to the actual facts (trends)!

Anyway, a very nice example of a difficult rifle, all 1915's are hard to find this nice, a Suhl doubly so, but I think the stock is probably not sanded, at least not in the traditional sense, possibly a good hard cleaning as it looks like it was in the war (which most Suhl were, for whatever reason, Suhl's were used, hard to find a minty/clean Suhl, and when seen are 1917's)
 
Your CGH

Your CGH very well may be more of a War Horse than you think. Craig Brown and I were chatting at the SOS many moons ago and I mentioned a 1915 ERFURT 98AZ I had. Its primary attraction is the 188th JR MGK markings on the butt plate. However, it is totally matching with wonderful metal and an untouched stock. No rust or cleaning. The subject of discussion was the total lack of finish on all the exposed metal. Craig in his authoritative tone says, "Well you know why?". To which I shrugged my shoulders. He says because "It was exposed to a Gas Attack!". He went on to talk a long bit how poison gases (I cannot recall if all poison gasses do or just some) used in WWI would take the blueing off anything very quickly. My 98AZ attests to that. Perfect un-scarred metal with no bluing. Take the hand guard off and the covered barrel bluing is outstanding. I wish I had asked for his references but it just did not seem important at the time and, of course, it is too late now.
 
Jeff, thank you for sharing that. I would have not thought that before you said it. It's been a long time since I took chemistry, but I know Chlorine gas is a pretty powerful oxidizing agent. Phosgene I believe as well. I don't think Mustard gas would be quite as aggressive on metal but I think the story is 100% believable to me.



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In "Storm of Steel", Ernst Jünger writes about an incoming gas attack in Monchy in June 1916 : "Vorn waren alle Leute beschäftigt, dem so oft geübten "Verhalten bei Gasangriff" gemäss ihre Gewehre einzufetten, deren Laüfe durch das Chlor volkommen geschwärzt sein".

In English: In the front trench, everyone was busy greasing their rifles, the barrels of which were completely blackened by the chlorine, in accordance with the so-often practiced "behavior in gas attack"

He does not speak about the blueing, but I intrepret it as the chlorine attacking the polished parts including the bore (turning black).
 

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