Matching 1916 JP Sauer & Sohn

Hi guys,. I should play the lottery after these last two finds.. A fellow member found this at a local Cabela's and tipped me off. The price was quite below market.

A nice, honest mid-war Suhler with all factory matching parts. The cleaning rod is an armorer's rod with a stamp but no number. All other parts match to the last screw. Goofy repaired d/c between the rear sight and rear band. Thought it was just a scratch at first.

Barrel is a Bismarckhütte blank with Sauer acceptance. I'm assuming Sauer finished their own barrels but may not all "in house" barrels were marked?

The receiver has some nick and scratch marks but is in great shape overall for a Suhl. As noted before these just seemed to take a beating based on when they were made and where they were issued.

Is the funky "S" on the QDS of any significance relative to the maker?

Here's the data sheet:

1916 J.P. Sauer & Sohn Suhl

Receiver: 7511d

Barrel: 7511d code: BJ 115

Bolt body: 7511d

Bolt shroud: 11

Cocking piece: 11

Safety: 11

Firing pin: 11

Extractor: 12

Follower: 11

Bolt stop: 11

Floorplate: 11

Triggerguard: 7511

Front screw: 11

Rear screw: 11

Rear sight leaf: 11

Rear sight slider: 11

Stock: 7511

Handguard 7511

Front band: 11

Rear band: 11

Bayo lug: 11

Buttplate: 7511 ("d"suffix--faint-- on top)

Front sight: 11

Cleaning rod: unnumbered/armorer

Sling: "S" looking mark on QDS

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

More pics

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

Sure looks like a fine example and I love that stock. Glad ya found it and thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the data and detailed pics. Do we know the highest block of the 150,000 batch the Suhl consortium completed in October 1916 (Storz, p.182) ?

Guillaume d'Orange said:

Thanks for the data and detailed pics. Do we know the highest block of the 150,000 batch the Suhl consortium completed in October 1916 (Storz, p.182) ?

Click to expand...

If I recall they hit the "k" block in 16, but I don't know that for a fact.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

That is a great looking Suhl rifle Chris you have been have some really good Suhl Consortium luck lately my friend!

Warrior1354 said:

That is a great looking Suhl rifle Chris you have been have some really good Suhl Consortium luck lately my friend!

Click to expand...

Thanks buddy! I do love these Suhlers. Probably my favorite maker collectively. Probably spills over from my obsession with Sauer k98k. Lol

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

What a great rifle, Chris! Cabela’s, really?! Got to broaden my search area.

Nice piece!

Excellent example, - The consortium went to the u-block in 1916, so high in fact that it is possible a v-block will show up. Regarding the barrels, all known were made by JPS (regardless of end user, in-house like this the barrels do not carry the JPS trademarks, S&S or Boxed "S", though Erfurt is known to have supplied receivers in 1916-1917 so it is possible an Erfurt barrel will show up), most receivers and bolt bodies by CGH (like here).

I agree all the Suhl makers are tough to find nice, this is also because far fewer were made than the arsenals and the patent holders (DWM/WMO), while the u-block seems high, all three makers divide this high range, generally equal CGH & JPS, with VCS slightly in the rear... though no way to tell whether this observation is reflective of actual production, it could be all were more equally represented (recorded for 1916= CGH-107, JPS-102, VCS-82), further collectors vary in observations, Mark Wieringa once told me that he found JPS the most difficult of the three, I never found a VCS in upper grades for sale or that I could afford (but owned several excellent JPS's).

What is pretty much a fact, or at least a factoid, is that the Suhl's are among the most difficult to find nice, which isn't so much the case with scarcer makers like WOK, which are much harder to find but do seem to show up (when seen) in pretty good condition.

** Chris, if possible try to do better pictures of the acceptance at the wrist, under the serail and under the cypher, - I think the acceptance under the cypher is C/W which would be consistent, under the serial probably is as well, but the wrist is my main interest, it looks distinct enough to identify if a good shot is possible (unlike the acceptance under the serial which looks worn), but it usually is C/N and I am not sure that looks like a C/N.

Thanks as always Paul-- the Right side acceptance under the cypher is 100% c/W it's doesn't show up great in pics, but it's indisputable.

The keel is very worn, but to me looks c/W

Here is the wrist-- to my eye is pretty clearly c/N

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

Another nice pickup...congrats!

chrisftk said:

Thanks as always Paul-- the Right side acceptance under the cypher is 100% c/W it's doesn't show up great in pics, but it's indisputable.

The keel is very worn, but to me looks c/W

Here is the wrist-- to my eye is pretty clearly c/N

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I agree, C/N and this is the most stable of the three, under the cypher does vary slightly (seems more prone to change) but with the Suhl's is far more consistent than the arsenals. DWM/WMO are more stable also, but the government owned operations, Prussian anyway (Amberg really produced private firms quality, probably better than the Suhl's strangely enough...) are far less reliable on stock acceptance, wrist usually the most stable, but even the Prussian medley rotate between half dozen inspectors (so some consistency exists).