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Thread: Proper period, wrong country

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner View Post
    Dave, can you make out any "ghost" remains of what was scrubbed of the receiver?

    thanks,
    Most likely PFK WARSZAWA 1924 or 1923

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokarev38 View Post
    Most likely PFK WARSZAWA 1924 or 1923
    Are any of the triangle Z rifles reworks of former German Gew. 98s? It seems strange that the Poles would scrub their own
    maker marks. I have seen Polish used Gew. 98s that still had all the German markings and just the Polish eagle added. I would
    have thought these were more likely to be scrubbed. thoughts?

  3. #23
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    I don't remember seeing German WWI Gew98 with those Z marks in a triangle, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. This mark was applied to some rifles that had work done on their action/barrel by the refurbishing arsenal. Any rifle that went through that procedure might have it. I have French Berthier that was used by Poles that has such mark.
    Scrubbing of receivers was a practice that was done to rifles meant to be exported to Spain to hide their origin. Poles were selling weapons to both sides of conflict.

    Jack

  4. #24
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    All Z-Builds (Z in a triangle top receiver):

    304 k SR- 98a (Clean scrub, faint C/B's RR, by suffix remains and RR I suspect CGH)
    1444 k SR- 98a (Clean scrub, faint RR, by RR I suspect DWM)
    2284 K SR- Gew.98.a (unscrubbed, Danzig/16)
    K3236 SR- Gew.98 (clean scrub, RR fairly clear, Amberg/15)
    3805 k SR- 98a (clean scrub, RR n/a, by suffix style & Peiper reciever, I suspect WMO/17 sterngewehr)
    6757 k SR- W98.a (in other pictures 2018 you can make out faint top markings, I suspect 20's PFK Warszawa)
    7485 K SR- Gew.98.a (WMO/1915 faint, but clear)
    7535 k SR- 98a (well scrubbed, no way to guess)
    7609 k SR- 98a (well scrubbed but clear Erfurt style FP, probably JPS/CGH/VCS)
    8160 k SR- 98a (well scrubbed but clear Bavarian FP, Amberg for sure)


    Quote Originally Posted by runner View Post
    Are any of the triangle Z rifles reworks of former German Gew. 98s? It seems strange that the Poles would scrub their own
    maker marks. I have seen Polish used Gew. 98s that still had all the German markings and just the Polish eagle added. I would
    have thought these were more likely to be scrubbed. thoughts?

  5. #25
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    Here is one on a Berthier
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    All Z-Builds (Z in a triangle top receiver):

    304 k SR- 98a (Clean scrub, faint C/B's RR, by suffix remains and RR I suspect CGH)
    1444 k SR- 98a (Clean scrub, faint RR, by RR I suspect DWM)
    2284 K SR- Gew.98.a (unscrubbed, Danzig/16)
    K3236 SR- Gew.98 (clean scrub, RR fairly clear, Amberg/15)
    3805 k SR- 98a (clean scrub, RR n/a, by suffix style & Peiper reciever, I suspect WMO/17 sterngewehr)
    6757 k SR- W98.a (in other pictures 2018 you can make out faint top markings, I suspect 20's PFK Warszawa)
    7485 K SR- Gew.98.a (WMO/1915 faint, but clear)
    7535 k SR- 98a (well scrubbed, no way to guess)
    7609 k SR- 98a (well scrubbed but clear Erfurt style FP, probably JPS/CGH/VCS)
    8160 k SR- 98a (well scrubbed but clear Bavarian FP, Amberg for sure)
    Thanks for posting this, SN 6757 K, would suggest (one example doesn't make a pattern) that former Polish W98 rifles that were upgraded may have had the top receiver scrubbed, but kept their
    original sidewall marking with just the addition of the "a".

    I am realizing that assembling a collection of Polish rifle variants, 1919 to 1939, will be both difficult and expensive. And I am excluding all the foreign rifles they had in inventory.

  7. #27
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    The early PFK Warszawa (W.98's) are damn difficult to find, even the few I have recorded are seriously screwed up, German reworks or worse... I don't think I have recorded one that is really decent or near original.

    *** actually one is recorded in pretty good shape, a gunboards discussion from 2013 (1924 PFK Warszawa 15881); on another note, there are a good number of former G98's that have been re-barreled and often restocked by the Poles, but lack Z markings or the FBR shield, some are partial scrubs (half-hearted) or unmolested. The Poles really did put an effort into salvaging foreign rifles and much of it is hard to decipher because the Germans often tinkered with them again after 1939. Anyway, there is a great deal of merit focusing on Polish rifles and their many variants (some are probably not true variants, rather just mongrels that defy classification..), though the seemingly dearth of reference material really complicates specialization in the subject. York's VIS book is the only book I have on the subject, that and a bunch of clipped articles written by collectors that know little more than I do and almost all centered around the VIS. Really, someone could make a name for themselves (in the hobby broadly) studying and writing a good book on the various Polish rifle variations (in English)

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