Third Party Press

Proper period, wrong country

runner

Senior Member
I know this forum is for German weapons, so my apologies to Paul.

I recently purchased a 1937 dated Polish Wz98a barreled action from a forum member, (thanks Bruce) I picked it up at my FFL yesterday and did a very quick and dirty
"restoration" from stuff I had in my parts bin. As I get time to research this rifle I hope to do a more through and correct restoration.

The second rifle in the photos is a 1924 dated Polish W98. This rifle is correct and matching except for the cleaning rod. It is interesting to note that contrary to most countries
that progressed from long Infantry rifles to short rifles, the Poles went back. For those not familiar with the Polish rifles of this era. After being re-established as an independent country after WWl,
Poland was armed with a large variety of weapons from their former WWI allies and enemies. Having received the rifle making equipment from the former Danzig arsenal, they decided to standardize on the Mauser 98 design.

Their first rifles were copies (or even just remarked former German Gew.98s) one from John Walls collection just sold on Gunbroker. They eventually tooled up to make their own version, which they called the W98. My 1924 dated one is an example. Then going with the current trend they went to shorter rifles. First the k98, a copy of the German Kar98a, then a short rifle the K-29, later marked WZ-29, and to further confuse things, they updated some K98s to WZ-29 configuration and made a hybrid marked K98-29. Then for reasons to complicated for this post, they decided the infantry really did need a long rifle and introduced a new version of the W98, now designated WZ98a. Other than markings, the only significant difference is the lange sight replaced by the tangent sight.

Both versions of the long rifle had relatively short production runs, the W98 being soon replaced by the K-29, and Wz98a production being halted by the German invasion.

Other than the sights, some other subtle differences, the firing proofs moved from the left side of the receiver to the right, and this example of the Wz98a seems to have fewer inspection marks. Sidewall markings being another obvious difference.

I am currently trying to determine what parts of the WZ98a should be in the white, as I think the entire barreled assembly and bolt have been reblued, I do not know how these were finished at the factory as any I have seen first hand have been were used and/or modified post war. I am finding it very difficult to find any decent information on Polish weapons of this period, I have one book, but it is in Polish so it is of limited use to me. If anyone can suggest references or has photos of a period example I would love to see them.
 

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Polish rifles are quite fine by me, hard not to admire the Poles in 1919-1945, while they had reprehensible governments they were resilient and brave culture. Really in an impossible situation... I follow Polish rifles almost as energetically as the 98k, though very little is known about the subject. I have actually been organizing my Polish files in an effort to do something with the subject, -as a counter to my Freikorps project.

Anyway, been offline the last couple days, maybe tomorrow I can check out your two posts.

Polish subjects are always welcome!
 
Yes, many Polish rifles ended up in German service, also many components, especially rifle barrels, which are pretty common on upgraded G98'a and 98a. One interesting note regarding these captured rifles and small arms, the Germans apparently first offered them to the Chinese in 1940, but according to StanZ the Chinese turned the offer down, not sure if it was due to price or some other problem. Seems like they would have jumped at the offer, generally the Chinese paid in raw materials, but so much was complicated in China of the period it is difficult to know or even guess at their motivations... of course the Chinese were getting help from the USSR for much of this period, but the League vote (Chine abstained and didn't veto the expulsion and Stalin took it bad..) and of course the USSR-Japanese non-aggression pact also influenced the situation. Anyway, it is probably best for collectors the Chinese didn't take the deal as more have survived and in better shape than had they been put through the meat-grinder Sino-Japanese war.

I think the most problematic aspect of studying Polish rifles, other than the wildly foreign nature of the Polish language to English, is trying to document and interpret stock markings. Pretty wide variety to them and I suspect some Polish researchers have figured it out, but I have seen little written on the subject. The MRJ published two fairly useful articles (by Poles or at least Polish collectors) on the subject but mostly cover the broad outline and superficial details. But one does give good historical context and production totals. I will attach the production totals for Frank's further research, assuming he doesn't have the chart.
 

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1936-1937 Wz.98a production.

It seems from limited observations that production at FBR started in 1936 and serialed w/o roll over into 1937/38. Below are recorded (I am sure this sparse sample is not very revealing, but maybe a start for someone starting out.. if someone is eager to do a research thread let me know and maybe I can flesh out more details...)

1936 FB Radom:

02564
04745
08627
10636
11981
13134
13254
13403
14336 (date defaced, but 1936 or 1938, by serial 1936)

1937 FB Radom:

16949
20622
20724
21236
22360
24555
26075
30565
31741
33039
34166
34215

1938 FB Radom:

39868
42993
44866
 
This one of my Polish Mausers
 

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Very nice rifle! Any stock markings other than the serial number?
Does the bolt match, it appears to be in the white is that correct?

Thanks for posting
 
Photos of another of my Polish rifles that saw German service
 

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More photos note repair to stock crack done by me.
 

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Photos of another of my Polish rifles that saw German service

Interesting to see both versions of the W.98a. The Polish produced and the reworked German Gew.98.
I noticed Your Polish version is marked just like mine on the sidewall: WZ.98a while the reworked Gew. is marked just W98.a
It would be interesting to see more examples to see if this was standard practice or just a variation.

Edit: I just found another example of a Polish scrubbed Gew. 98, this one had just 98.a on the sidewall, so the definitely variation in how the
reworked Gew. 98s were marked.
 
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Wz98a was a model indicating stamp that was applied on long rifles produced in Radom factory during 1936-39 period. W98 stamp was applied on Warsaw made long rifles in 1923 and 1924. Posted rifle with only Z in a triangle on a receiver is a Warsaw made rifle that was reworked in Warsaw armory in 1939. Z in a triangle and rectangular stamp ZW 3 39 indicate that. Letter "a" after 98 was added during that conversion to update model designation to current spec.

Jack
 
Wz98a was a model indicating stamp that was applied on long rifles produced in Radom factory during 1936-39 period. W98 stamp was applied on Warsaw made long rifles in 1923 and 1924. Posted rifle with only Z in a triangle on a receiver is a Warsaw made rifle that was reworked in Warsaw armory in 1939. Z in a triangle and rectangular stamp ZW 3 39 indicate that. Letter "a" after 98 was added during that conversion to update model designation to current spec.

Jack


Thank you for that information. Why were the upgraded Warsaw made rifles (1923-1924) scrubbed of receiver markings when updated to WZ.98a specs?
 
Thank you for that information. Why were the upgraded Warsaw made rifles (1923-1924) scrubbed of receiver markings when updated to WZ.98a specs?

I have no idea and that question bothers me too. The only explanation that I could come up with would be as follows. Warsaw Armory also refitted number of rifles that were exported to Spain. When this particular rifle was refitted in March 1939 international tensions with Germany were high and maybe they tried to increase the volume of completed rifles and send out the door as many of them as possible. Scrubbed receiver could be left over from Spanish order and then in March 39 they decided to use it to complete a rifle. This is only my speculation however.
You need to keep in mind that Warsaw Armory was a refurbishing, repairing and overhauling facility. They refitted all kinds of rifles to different degree. Some maybe stock only, others maybe barrel change. That's why such variety in models and markings. Their signature mark of rectangular stamp on the stock butt can be found on Polish made Mausers, German wwI rifles, Polish converted Mosins, French Berthiers and possibly others as well.

Jack
 
I looked closer at the photo of the posted rectangular mark and it seems to read 7 39, which would indicate July 1939 not March as I thought. That would explain above conclusion even better.
 
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I have no idea and that question bothers me too. The only explanation that I could come up with would be as follows. Warsaw Armory also refitted number of rifles that were exported to Spain. When this particular rifle was refitted in March 1939 international tensions with Germany were high and maybe they tried to increase the volume of completed rifles and send out the door as many of them as possible. Scrubbed receiver could be left over from Spanish order and then in March 39 they decided to use it to complete a rifle. This is only my speculation however.
You need to keep in mind that Warsaw Armory was a refurbishing, repairing and overhauling facility. They refitted all kinds of rifles to different degree. Some maybe stock only, others maybe barrel change. That's why such variety in models and markings. Their signature mark of rectangular stamp on the stock butt can be found on Polish made Mausers, German wwI rifles, Polish converted Mosins, French Berthiers and possibly others as well.

Jack


thank you for your post, I find these Polish rifles very interesting and under represented and researched relative to many other Mauser variants. I have one book by Krzysztof Haladaj and Pawel Rozdzestwienski, and it is entirely in Polish, so limited in value.
 
Z-Builds:

304 k SR- 98a
1444 k SR- 98a
2284 K SR- Gew.98.a (unscrubbed, Danzig/16, "a" added to SR, but "triangle Z")
K3236 SR- Gew.98 (scrubbed z-receiver, SR unchanged)
3805 k SR- 98a
6757 k SR- W98.a
7485 K SR- Gew.98.a (unscrubbed, WMO/15, "a" added to SR, but "triangle Z")
7535 k SR- 98a
7609 k SR- 98a
8160 k SR- 98a


According to MRJ/2004 the Z= Zbrojowia (Arsenal)

According to John Wall in 2006, he wrote the below:

Unfortunately, I do not have solid documented proof as to what these z-marks means, but (here's where truth gets squishy!) I was told by a Polish arms colector (whose first language is Polish) that the letter "Z" stands for the Polish word "zbrojovnia, or as another source spells it "zbrojownina". (Not sure which is correct.) This word was translated for me as a "small armory" or a "satelite armory" of a larger arms factory. I agree with Clay that this factory could very well have been Radom, but I do not know that for sure. Unfortunately, although a lot of Polish rifle literature exists in Polish, very, vey little as been translated into English and what has been, both in book form and Internet, is 95% unsubstantiated, so we have no way of double checking anything.


These are pretty elusive, especially in any kind of original condition, none seem to follow exacting patterns, some scrubs are better than others, the non-scrubbed FBR are a lot more common. As for Poland sending small arms to Spain, they were scrubbed because there was an arms embargo on the conflict, Poland's government was rather fascistic and nationalistic in the extreme, they did not support the Republican government out of ideology (they were far closer to Hitler's Germany), they did it for gold or hard currency, - same with Greece and Yugoslavia; Germany and Poland were great friends in this period, there were few real tensions, the Poles were extremely helpful to Hitler's dismemberment of Czechoslovakia, as was Hungary... The Czechs created the problem they faced, they stupidly took lands with large Hungarian and German populations (Germans were the second largest population and it was stupid to think Germany would forget about them... same with the Lithuanian takeover of Memel), many tensions were over smaller minorities also, the Slovaks had a rather strong separatist movement also, which was active in England.

Anyway, I do not think the scrubbing was related to the Spanish Civil War, the Poles were not sympathetic to the far left Spanish government, it was just a business arrangement and the scrubbing was probably just a crude attempt at disguise. One of the tragedies of the conflict was the treasure the "Republicans" (they were anything but representative or peaceful) sent to Stalin included some treasure stolen from the ancient empires of Central and South America, it hadn't been melted at that time, but I bet Stalin melted it...


It would be interesting to see more examples to see if this was standard practice or just a variation.
 
Proper Polish spelling for word armory is "zbrojownia". It is for large size arsenal which rebuilds, repairs and retrofits weapons. Factories like in Radom Or Warsaw are called "fabryka". Small repair shops are called "Warsztat rusznikarski" Some Polish converted Mosins during mid 20's are marked "W.R.N.1" which stands for "Warsztat rusznikarski nr 1" (Weapons repair shop no 1).

Jack
 

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