Third Party Press

Kill Marks

Gerst

Senior Member
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During my Gewehr 1872 “research” I came across several references to “kill marks” on weapons. Can anyone furnish a photo of such marks? Was this a common practice?
 
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During my Gewehr 1872 “research” I came across several references to “kill marks” on weapons. Can anyone furnish a photo of such marks? Was this a common practice? I’ve never heard of this for “grunts,” only artillerymen and fighter pilots.

Unscrupulous sellers trying to mark up prices.

I have seen cut marks next to rear sights to remind the user of preferred distance settings, and also on the comb of stocks likely from mishandling. Both of which could be labelled "kill marks," just as grease marks are often speculatively referred to as "blood stains."
 
During my Gewehr 1872 “research” I came across several references to “kill marks” on weapons. Can anyone furnish a photo of such marks? Was this a common practice? I’ve never heard of this for “grunts,” only artillerymen and fighter pilots.


Fantasy bull shite
 
We're not saying it's out of the realm of possibility in war but how would you ever prove it? Anybody can scratch lines on a rifle stock and say look kill marks give me an extra $1,000. Plus any military around the world at that time most of that was strictly forbidden because you altering a weapon issued too you and paid by your country. And not only that would any German Soldier want to surrender a weapon to an American or Russian soldier with a bunch of tally kill marks on their rifle stock?

If that unforsaken soul was lucky he would get a quick bullet and a quick death if he was unlucky he would probably get beat to death with the buttstock of that rifle and that rifle's barrel shoved up his a$$.
 
We're not saying it's out of the realm of possibility in war but how would you ever prove it? Anybody can scratch lines on a rifle stock and say look kill marks give me an extra $1,000. Plus any military around the world at that time most of that was strictly forbidden because you altering a weapon issued too you and paid by your country. And not only that would any German Soldier want to surrender a weapon to an American or Russian soldier with a bunch of tally kill marks on their rifle stock?

If that unforsaken soul was lucky he would get a quick bullet and a quick death if he was unlucky he would probably get beat to death with the buttstock of that rifle and that rifle's barrel shoved up his a$$.

Exactly, and deliberate damage to government property is punishable, especially in Germany, even today.

War isn't some Hollywood cowboy drama.

99.9999999 % of the marks are absolute bull shite fantasy, put there by some shite seller, hoping to rope a dope into believing in the "TOOTH FAIRY"
 
Indeed Dave I remember finding an old military article called sear's business. It was explaining how Joe dope in the US military would file the Sear on his M1 rifle thinking he could have a burst fire weapon. It explained how that was impossible to do and in the end Joe dope had to pay to fix the weapon or buy another one out of his pay check. I'll see if I can find it I had it in one of the M1 journals from the GCA years ago.
 
I know of one documented gun with them, an M-110 owned by a friend of mine. He purchased the gun (legally) and noted some initials, cuts, dates, etc on the stock. Some of initials and dates corresponded to men who had died in one unit in Afghanistan during one tour. Using this info, along with some other things, he was able to track down the soldier that the rifle had been issued to. He confirmed that the cuts on the comb were kill marks, and that one was associated with an engagement during which he had earned a bronze star.

So are they bullshit? Usually. Almost always. But not always. And if you’re buying a gun based on marks alone you are probably not making the best decision.

Last I knew the gun was for sale, so if anyone would like to have a pissing match over the gun and it’s provenance feel free to let me know and I’ll pass along your contact info to him. The owner is likely known of by members here, although he isn’t an internet guy. He even got a picture of the gun in Afghanistan, it’s distinct stock markings standing out.
 
Purposeful vandalism would have likely resulted in a fine and a swift a$$ beating from that offender’s NCO. Maybe even an apology letter written to the rifle lol.

Graffiti isn’t tolerated in professional militaries of any era.
 
The idea of "KILL MARKS" started out in Hollywood [ THE OLD WEST OUTLAW / GUNFIGHTER shite ], so I could see an American soldier perhaps doing this.

If it were one of my soldiers the "KILL MARKS" would be shoved up his a$$ hole and he would spend the rest of his tour on my shite list, after he paid for damaging government property....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGmUsJvRv7U
 
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I purchased a Kar98 earlier this year with "notches" in the stock, but always assumed that they were to aid with distance settings like PrayingMantis mentioned or were possibly even improvised "finger grips". I was never under the assumption that they were any sort of "kill marks" though.

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I completely agree with everything you gentlemen are saying.

I would add for consideration, the fairly prolific graffiti on Vietnam-era helmet covers, flak vests, and so forth.

Specific to WWII-era, outside of the occasional embellished knife sheath and such, not nearly as much creative liberty taken with issued gear.

When I was in, you got away with zero of that (“...a pledge pin!... on your UNIFORM!?”). Putting your last name on your helmet foliage band was about it. On deployment, I did write “Short” in Sharpie on the cuff of my jungle boot, and thought that was pretty edgy. :thumbsup:

So, in total, I agree. Unless there is iron-clad provenance, I would dismiss it as a fox trying to lure someone to the carnival. Juice-job, like every drippy-pipe stain on an enemy flag being blood.
 
The rifle didn’t smell like feces, and last I knew the prior owner was a higher ranked NCO still on active duty, so he apparently wasn’t booted for it. Thus, I’m guessing he came through relatively unharmed.

Like it or not it’s a true story. And that’s my input on this post.

It’s almost always a Bs story made to hype something, but not always. The gun was purchased in a lot of four, and only through research was a story developed.
 
As I said American soldiers being exposed to Hollywood Bull shite might do that sort of thing, but not under my command because, I would not tolerate it.

During the Gulf war I had members of my battalion scout platoon that I caught using a dead Iraqi for " trophy photos".

The NCO, in charge, a Staff Sergeant, who had allowed this to take place, received a Field Grade Article 15, and a bar to reenlistment, for conduct unbecoming an American soldier.

I made the scouts bury the dead man properly, after I told them, in extremely vulgar language, how fucking disgusting their conduct was.
 
As I said American soldiers being exposed to Hollywood Bull shite might do that sort of thing, but not under my command because, I would not tolerate it.

During the Gulf war I had members of my battalion scout platoon that I caught using a dead Iraqi for " trophy photos".

The NCO, in charge, a Staff Sergeant, who had allowed this to take place, received a Field Grade Article 15, and a bar to reenlistment, for conduct unbecoming an American soldier.

I made the scouts bury the dead man properly, after I told them, in extremely vulgar language, how fucking disgusting their conduct was.

Good for you, that is fucking disgusting.
 
War is never something to glorify it's glorified in video games and movies to make it seem like it's a great thing. Even though that Iraqi soldier was our enemy at the time he still died for his nation and what his country told him to do and what he thought was a just cause. I could only imagine if Iraqi soldiers were found displaying American bodies for trophy pictures how would that go in the news media? Our country would be appalled by that behavior. As a little kid I still remember them dragging the bodies of the two Delta Force snipers after the Black Hawk Down operation.
 
..would any German Soldier want to surrender a weapon to an American or Russian soldier with a bunch of tally kill marks on their rifle stock?

If that unforsaken soul was lucky he would get a quick bullet and a quick death if he was unlucky he would probably get beat to death with the buttstock of that rifle and that rifle's barrel shoved up his a$$.

This. For me that's the REAL reason I call BS on this. I wouldn't say never ever but in the German Army? 99.something % sure it didn't happen.
 
We're not saying it's out of the realm of possibility in war but how would you ever prove it? Anybody can scratch lines on a rifle stock and say look kill marks give me an extra $1,000. Plus any military around the world at that time most of that was strictly forbidden because you altering a weapon issued too you and paid by your country. And not only that would any German Soldier want to surrender a weapon to an American or Russian soldier with a bunch of tally kill marks on their rifle stock?

If that unforsaken soul was lucky he would get a quick bullet and a quick death if he was unlucky he would probably get beat to death with the buttstock of that rifle and that rifle's barrel shoved up his a$$.

While we might take time to examine a rifle, the Russians would not bother looking for "KILL MARKS". They would just shoot the German, without thinking and move on......
 
While we might take time to examine a rifle, the Russians would not bother looking for "KILL MARKS". They would just shoot the German, without thinking and move on......
Hey, what’s this “shoot the German” stuff. I was German until 1964!
 

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