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Thread: Chapter 4 Part 1 Pages 132-192: Mauser Werke AG Oberndorf a/N

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    I buy capture paper guns ugafx4's Avatar
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    Default Chapter 4 Part 1 Pages 132-192: Mauser Werke AG Oberndorf a/N

    Discussion for Chapter 4 Part 1 Pages 132-192: Mauser Werke AG Oberndorf a/N Read time: Approx. Hour and 10 mins

    We are digging into the history of the Mauser firm, export contracts to China, Standard-Modells and Banner Ks! I just completed reading this and I learned a ton. Really fascinating information!

    Should be some great discussion here!

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    The most interesting thing to me are the Gruppe Berlin-Brandenburg rifles. Supposedly they were issued to guys that were going to police the undisciplined S.A.? Sounds like the "Night of the Long Knives" was being planned...

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    Baby Face RyanE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom H View Post
    The most interesting thing to me are the Gruppe Berlin-Brandenburg rifles. Supposedly they were issued to guys that were going to police the undisciplined S.A.? Sounds like the "Night of the Long Knives" was being planned...
    I think the Gr.B.B. section has a few issues.

    For one, Gruppe Berlin-Brandenburg is not a police unit. SA-Gruppe Berlin-Brandenburg was the regional command of the SA in the Berlin-Brandenburg district. The SA divided Germany into 21 regions and the SA-Brigades and their Standarte in each region were subordinated to the regional Gruppe under a Gruppenführer. SA-Gruppe Berlin-Brandenburg, being headquartered in Berlin, was obviously one of the more important ones. The SA-Gruppe were initially the highest level of the SA organization except for the Oberste SA-Fuhrung (Supreme SA Command, officially Hitler but Stabschef Rohm ran the day-to-day), though SA-Obergruppe were created in 1932 which were responsible for 2 or 3 regional Gruppen each.

    It is true that Göring created an SA-Feldpolizei unit in SA-Gruppe Berlin-Brandenburg in February 1933. The FePo were an SA unit that was intended to be an internal NSDAP police force responsible for policing the members of the SS, SA, Stalhelm and other party organs, but they took part in raids against communists and other political enemies also. While Gr.B.B. created the first FePo unit, eventually Rohm ordered the other SA-Gruppe to create their own units also. The FePo were distinct from the Hilfspolizei (Auxillary Police), SA and SS men who assisted the regular police units in maintaining order, especially when dealing with Communists, and ensured that the police remained under party control. The FePo wore distinctive blue uniforms with Polizei starburts on the their collar and kepis as well as special gorgets, while the HiPo wore white armbands over their normal SA and SS uniforms.

    Both the Hilfspolizei and the SA-Feldpolizei were disbanded in October 1933 and replaced by Göring's new SA-Feldjägerkorps which served more or less the same functions. After Rohm was shot, the SA lost what political power it had and by April 1935, the FJK was rolled into the regular Schutzpolizei units and completely disbanded in 1936.

    So basically, I think the Gr.B.B. is just an inventory stamp of the SA-Gruppe itself and not necessarily any particular unit. Its possible these were purchased for the SA-Feldpolizei but they could have been bought for any number of other reasons also. It appears that the Berlin Feldpolizei was never a very large unit, no more than 200 men or so, so buying rifles just for them seems unlikely IMO, and it seems the other Gruppe would probably have been responsible for the arming of their own Feldpolizei/Feldjäger units.

    For illustration, some pictures of the HiPo and the Berlin SA-Feldpolizei.

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    Senior Member Guillaume d'Orange's Avatar
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    Done my weekly reading.

    Are there period documents from Mauser talking about FN 24, FN24/30 or Vz 24 ? Or exploring the pros and cons of a 600mm barrel length while using S or sS cartridges ?

    About the interesting document on p.168:
    1) do we know why Mauser was presenting their rifle models to the chief of the HWA in October 1933 (Vorführungsprogramm) ?
    2) does anyone have a clue why in October 1933 Standard Modell had "S Patrone" rear sights and Banner K had "sS Patrone" rear sights ? The sS cartridge was adopted by the Reichswehr in 1929/1930, but the 2 models were supposedly "commercial" rifles.

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    Senior Member joryfreeburg's Avatar
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    The Banner K’s in the photo galley pages 189-191 are complete gun porn..... that 1934 D.R.P. sn 66563 is to die for. Some really cool rifles. Some day I will add a Banner K to my collection

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    I buy capture paper guns ugafx4's Avatar
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    I have been slacking on this....few questions:
    1. The magazine looks advanced from the model 29, why didn’t it stick?
    2. Does anyone have a 1940-44 standard Modell? I guess there is no way to no this because they were probably produced earlier and sold from stock?

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    Senior Member Guillaume d'Orange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugafx4 View Post
    I have been slacking on this....few questions:
    1. The magazine looks advanced from the model 29, why didn’t it stick?
    2. Does anyone have a 1940-44 standard Modell? I guess there is no way to no this because they were probably produced earlier and sold from stock?
    Here are some pics of Modell 29 (w/o magazine) but a Gew 98 with an extended mag is just above.
    You will notice this one does not have a straight bolt handle, like the one on p.137
    On question 1, I would say that those 25 round magazine look like a good idea on paper or if you have to clean up a trench or a house. However, like drum magazines, they are impractical to load and carry. I don't mention taking cover and shooting in prone position.
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