Third Party Press

1918 Mauser Tankgewehr

These are very neat guns, and I would recommend Kern’s book to anyone who is seriously interested in them. I can’t say that I’ve ever seen a mismatched one here in the states. I’ve heard of one that was missing it’s bolt, and later heard that one had been located, but it’s still unusual.

Despite a million sources saying so, I have very serious doubts that 15,000 were made. Ive not seen one with a serial number over 10,000 (“a” block guns) and yet we are to believe that they were made and that every one of the subsequent 5,000 were destroyed? Not likely. I’ve read of A block guns, and would love to be proven wrong. Where are they?
 
Despite a million sources saying so, I have very serious doubts that 15,000 were made. Ive not seen one with a serial number over 10,000 (“a” block guns) and yet we are to believe that they were made and that every one of the subsequent 5,000 were destroyed? Not likely. I’ve read of A block guns, and would love to be proven wrong. Where are they?

Yeah this was puzzling me too. Fal Grunt mentioned something in Speed's Mauser Archive book about the late production never leaving Mauser inventory. I'll admit I haven't opened my copy yet, but I'll be doing so later to see if I can find anything. It would certainly make sense. My SN list doesn't go too much higher than 8k, IIRC.

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As a follow up, Speed notes the followingnon page 167 of The Mauser Archives:

"Several thousand Mauser TuF rifle receivers and bolts remained in inventory after WWI. Many of these were used to make up large pressure test units suitable for testing cartridges up to 30mm. These were sold to many countries who were at this time developing larger aircraft machine guns and cannon."

Additionally, in the 1919 inventory report (page 225) for Mauser it shows 1,272 completed Tankgewehr on hand. As there is not a parts listing, it's hard to say how many loose receivers or bolts were also on hand.

Still Nirvana, either way, I agree that unless Mauser had a substantial cache of Unfinished receivers, the gap between our highest observed SN and the 15k mark is still large.

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On p225 Speed states the 1919 Mauser inventory book lists 1,272 T Gew.

“And the German government took back from Mauser all 1,272 completed anti-tank rifles as part of their agreement to destroy the remaining weapons held by arms firms. This treaty was formalized in 1922, but by then the Mauser firm had carefully hidden most of the remaining inventory of TuF actions and barrels, thus saving these valuable components from destruction at the hands of the ... (IMCC)”

Beat me to it!
 
Despite a million sources saying so, I have very serious doubts that 15,000 were made. Ive not seen one with a serial number over 10,000 (“a” block guns) and yet we are to believe that they were made and that every one of the subsequent 5,000 were destroyed? Not likely. I’ve read of A block guns, and would love to be proven wrong. Where are they?

It would certainly make sense. My SN list doesn't go too much higher than 8k, IIRC.

Personally, I've never observed an a block gun. Kern certainly speaks of them but with few serial numbers recorded. The highest number that I have confirmed is in the 85XX range .....
 
For what it’s worth, I’m working (slowly) on a book about antitank rifles. I’ve had one thing published and have several others under wraps.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/japanese-type-97-20mm-anti-tank-rifle/

It’s these sort of questionable “facts,” in this case the production numbers, that I’m making an effort to probe through. To the extent that m1918 production will come up, my statements will be based on observed data and a healthy dose of skepticism. I cannot in good faith put my name on an article/chapter that states over 10,000 of these guns were made. I suspect I’ll face some criticism, but so it is.

As an aside, does anyone have personal access to a Kurz gun? One of the first 300 guns that’s actually a short version. Jeff Noll has one but I’m not sure how to locate him or it.
 
As an aside, does anyone have personal access to a Kurz gun? One of the first 300 guns that’s actually a short version. Jeff Noll has one but I’m not sure how to locate him or it.

I had hands on the one at Morphy's last week. SN 86. They had decent photos on their website, but I'm sure you saw that one. I am not sure who ended up with it.

Jeff is a member here, you could probably PM him.

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Chris a wonderful rifle! I can’t imagine a more complete and detailed set of photos on such a rare weapon.
 
Chris a wonderful rifle! I can’t imagine a more complete and detailed set of photos on such a rare weapon.



Quite a find! I didn't have this recorded which is a big plus! Rare too is the thorough examination.

You have to be a stout young man to handle one of these bastards... regarding their effectiveness, I wrote about these about a decade ago, generally using AEF intelligence summaries and period comments. They were very effective if used properly and things were prepared to utilize them, but artillery was the main weapon too deal with tank concentrations. I will see if I can post a few pictures tomorrow from the summaries, they were a common topic when they first came out, the French, English and AEF did experiments with them, testing their effectiveness.

Thanks Paul, I'd love to read that.

Sam-- thanks as always buddy!

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All, this may be old hat or already seen by some, but attached are some period documents regarding allied assessment of the T-gewehr. These are courtesy of my friend Andrew at Archival Research Group and shared with his permission.
image00313.jpgimage00314.jpgimage00315.jpgimage00316.jpgimage00317.jpgimage00318.jpgimage00319.jpgimage00320.jpgimage00321.jpgimage00322.jpgimage00323.jpgimage00324.jpgimage00325.jpgimage00326.jpgimage00327.jpg

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There's a lot of research and documents out there to prove this but the tankgewehr is what made General Blackjack Pershing go to John Moses Browning and say I want you design a heavy machine gun that can take out light armored vehicles and hardened cover. Which gave birth to the good old M2 Ma deuce! Still in use today and I don't think it's leaving anytime soon.
 
I have not seen those before, thank you very much.
There's a lot of research and documents out there to prove this but the tankgewehr is what made General Blackjack Pershing go to John Moses Browning and say I want you design a heavy machine gun that can take out light armored vehicles and hardened cover. Which gave birth to the good old M2 Ma deuce! Still in use today and I don't think it's leaving anytime soon.
Happy to help! Enjoy!

Jordan, you are totally right on that. The T-gew in and if itself was really just an expedient to get *something* on the field. The original plan and endgame was an upscaled MG08 (or new platform) designed to fire the TuF round. The Germans just did not have time on their side.

The allies viewed the rifle as a curiosity but not practical and the Americans focused attention on MG development.



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Thanks for sharing that Chris-- I had seen drawings but did not realize an original survived.

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Most people were in the same boat as you, and then Russian museum data got released and suddenly all sorts of stuff existed. The old photo of it on a mount circulated some, I believe, but the people I spoke to told me that the common belief was that it wasn’t a real photo, or that the gun had been destroyed. Then all of a sudden new modern pics popped up.

A gentlemen I know that went over to a Russian museum made a statement to the effect that “if you slip the staff $100.00 they will let you examine a gun in the back storage area, take it apart or do whatever else you want.”

1738CD1C-6F04-4CB0-9319-244116113F2A.jpeg
 
Now to complete your ensemble you need one of these.
 

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