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Thread: CE 43 - Matching Duffle Cut

  1. #1
    Senior Member PrayingMantis's Avatar
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    Default CE 43 - Matching Duffle Cut

    Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to the SOS, but in an attempt to console myself I went to small local show today. My expectations were low, and after about twenty minutes I was ready to leave, but then my friend spotted a guy with a K98k who had just walked through the door. After talking to the owner, looking at the reference thread on here with my phone, and some haggling, I picked up this matching CE 43.

    The story goes that the previous owner I bought it from, a local contractor, found it in the wall of a house that had partially burned. Buy the gun, not the story, but either way he didn't do anything other than glue the stock and the fore-end back together, which has since come apart.I was hesitant to buy it because the handguard and band retention spring were both missing, but decided it was still a good price. I was very worried about it being humped, but it doesn't have any tell-tale grinding marks so I decided to risk it.

    When I got it home I immediately consulted Kriegsmodell and was pleased to find that the receiver is an Erma contract and the bolt might be Astrawerke. The barrel code appears to be fxo bo, with a e/37 and a star looking symbol. I was slightly concerned about the stock, it looked too dark compared to the white laminate examples in the book but those are 44s. However, when I took it apart I found that the stock is matching.

    The finish on it is really nice, and I like that Sauer also made Gewehr 98s. I just need to find correct parts to replace the missing pieces.
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    Community Organizer Hambone's Avatar
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    Great rifle Mantis, congrats, thanks for sharing it with us. Pic stickied for reference.

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    "Ach du lieber!" Bigdibbs88's Avatar
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    very nice mantis! nice used look to it

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    Senior Member BergerBoy's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing, Mantis.

    My first and only 98K is also a CE43 - serial # 2516 t.
    Other than my non-matching bolt, lots of similarities that I see to yours, like the locations of the stamps, the inner-stock markings, etc.
    My barrel is an "fxo au", also with the #37 WaA.
    The remainder of the rifle has the #280 WaA.
    Looks like your floor plate is the milled version, and is correctly stamped to match.
    Mine is a stamped floor plate, with no serial number but has a "byf" manufacturer code and a "135" WaA, and I've been wondering if there's still a chance it could be the original FP to this rifle. Any ideas?
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    Senior Member PrayingMantis's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments everyone. As soon as I find a band retention spring I'm going to look at repairing the duffle cut; as of right now all I have done is taken some bronze wool to the buttplate to stop some rust.

    Berger, thanks for the pictures of your ce 43. Just out of curiosity, is your retention spring serial numbered? Sorry I can't really help you with the floorplate, but it does look like its original to the triggerguard.

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    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Excellent pick up Cyrus, - the CGH barrel is nice too, as now you cover two Imperial makers!

    CGH (fxo) barrels are very common throughout 1943-1944, and earlier as well as it is harder to tell Sauer & CGH apart earlier on. Regarding the bolt, the bottom flat, it has no acceptance, right? This would be typical of Sauer in this range, often, almost always they have no acceptance and only the small fireproof at the back stem.
    Only if it has "l" and or e/1 would it be Astrawerke made, which so far hasn't occurred in the trends work. I do not know for sure on the band spring, but guessing I would say it isn't serialed, but few ever show this part and I have never owned a ce/43.

    Regarding the other rifle, 2526 t, the trigger guard is likely right, they did use stamped trigger guards this early, though milled tg & fp are far more common, - both should be serialed though. No acceptance is proper for tg/fp. Imo the floorplate is not original, as they are serialed well after the "t" block, as you can see with this "dd" block. (actually the floorplates are serialed till the end, in 1944)

    BTW, Cyrus, could you image the siderail, and tell me if ANY other part not imaged has an acceptance stamp? I know what it should be but I like to be through in the trends work, as while consistency is boring, it is also reassuring.
    Last edited by Loewe; 02-27-2012 at 04:24 PM.

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    Senior Member BergerBoy's Avatar
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    Thanks to SimonSuhl.
    Not sure I follow your statement below. The 2516t is my CE43, not Mantis's (see second group of pix above).
    If my FP is not serialed, but has a "byf" and a WaA code stamped on it, what's your assessment of whether it is matched to this rifle or not?
    Sounds like you're saying that it should have a 2516 serial stamped on it with no WaA, in order for it be an original match?


    "Regarding the other rifle, 2526 t, the trigger guard is likely right, they did use stamped trigger guards this early, though milled tg & fp are far more common, - both should be serialed though. No acceptance is proper for tg/fp. Imo the floorplate is not original, as they are serialed well after the "t" block, as you can see with this "dd" block. (actually the floorplates are serialed till the end, in 1944)"

    Also - Curious about the "Duffle Cut" term.
    Could that really mean what it sounds like?: That Vets would actually cut the weapon down to fit into their duffle bags to better facilitate the "bring back"??

  8. #8
    "Ach du lieber!" Bigdibbs88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimsonSuhl View Post
    Imo the floorplate is not original, as they are serialed well after the "t" block, as you can see with this "dd" block. (actually the floorplates are serialed till the end, in 1944)


    bergerboy.....the floorplate is not original to your rifle. it would have been milled and serial numbered. what simsonsuhl is saying is that your rifle is a t block....and jp sauer serial numbered their floorplates all the way through at least the dd block in 1943. ive logged them into the gg block....and as far as i know also to the end of production in 1944. also, they used almost exclusively milled floorplates, yours is stamped
    Last edited by Bigdibbs88; 02-27-2012 at 01:11 PM.

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    Senior Member PrayingMantis's Avatar
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    Paul, that's great that the barrel is CGH. And since the receiver in Erma its almost like it has lineage from three Imperial makers. I'll get some additional pictures this evening. I have most of it imaged I just need to zoom and crop.

    Berger, he was talking about your ce 43. Your triggerguard is correct, but your floorplate is a replacement. It should have a serial number, like mine does.
    Duffle Cut is exactly what it sounds like; soldiers with souvenirs often had to cut the stock and disassemble the rifles then put them in a duffle bag to get them back to the states. At least WWII cuts seem to usually be under the rear barrel band, most of the my WWI duffle cuts are right in the middle of the stock.

  10. #10
    Senior Member PrayingMantis's Avatar
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    Here is an image of the siderail and the underside of the receiver. The only other e/280 acceptance I can find is under the receiver and its partially cut off the on the bottom. It didn't photograph well for some reason. Should there be another acceptance somewhere else that I am missing?

    Also, here are two images of the bolt where stamps that look like 1s are located. This is why I suspected it was an Astrawerke bolt.
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