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BSW & Gustloff serial #'s & stock markings S/A & others

My dads captured Gustloff KKW, my first shooter

Please add my fathers Serial number 233031 to the Gustloff list. My dad told me he found this at Germany's equivalent to our West Point in the town of Paderborn. His own words. He served in the 3rd Armored Division, Hqtrs Combat Command B. The only extra letters or numbers on this is the "S" by the pistol grip. No serial numbers on bolt.
 

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Lists.

Please add my fathers Serial number 233031 to the Gustloff list. My dad told me he found this at Germany's equivalent to our West Point in the town of Paderborn. His own words. He served in the 3rd Armored Division, Hqtrs Combat Command B. The only extra letters or numbers on this is the "S" by the pistol grip. No serial numbers on bolt.

Thanks, dsm34!

There are several lists, one of which I maintain and your number will be added. Thanks also for the information on your father and his recollections. Like yours, my father sent back a kkw picked up after Bastogne and before the end of the war. He was in the 506th PIR, Hq Co, 1st Bn, 101st ABN.

-a
 
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My KKW HJ Bann Tulln 510 stamps

My great-uncle brought it back, and my Grandfather bought it from him in the 60s.
 

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Welcome

Welcome 22dude! you will find much information on this rifle on this forum. And I've never seen a Gust KKW with the HJ stock markings like you have. Thank you for sharing the photos!
 
I have to agree that is the nicest branded H.J. stock I have ever seen.. To bad the rest of the rifle is in poor condition.. I would find a sporterized early gustloff and pop it in that wood.. Much better option than re-bluing that metal..
 
Thanks you for your research and organization on these...

I have learned more in three days than the fourteen years I've had the rifle. They have been difficult to find information about.

...
I don't mind that most of the bluing is gone, it has a nice patina now, and I know that it was actually trained with. I am not a collector so those issues have never bothered me. They broke it in well, as it shoots amazing. I posted a group at Rimfire central with it shooting at 100 yards it shot a .5" wide and 1.5" tall group. It is difficult to shoot paper that far with Iron Sights, and I was using Aguila Standard Velocity as apposed to Eley Match, so that might have contributed to the vertical string. They also balance so well shooting off hand. I like it so much, I got the chinese TU-KKW and it shoots just as well, with a five round mag and scope.

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How do I identify a 22 Mauser sigle shot that I believe is prewar?

I have a Mauser Deutobes Sportmodell the stock is setup for a military sling and it has the graduated rear site. It does not have a bayonet or stock beyond the front rifle band.
 
Give us a couple of photos, or more complete description of gun and all markings visible on it, and we can certainly tell you what you have!

Steve
 
A BSW, KKW auction find

Here is another BSW, that is SA marked. Serial number is 200166. A few photos...
 

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very nice and a very early BSW kkw ! just over 200,000 As has been mentioned there are some observed under 200K I personally have never seen one.
The w625L/C yes Im still going there runs up to the high 199K range and Im sure there is some overlap and I have seen this. It shows up earlier in the dsm34/625 in the Simson/ BSW ranges. This one has the SA on the right side as some DSM34 show up with that marking as well. Its usually on earlier stuff before the large roundels show up on stocks. This has both.. very neat. Thanks for posting !
 
Probably one of ten that were made prior to official production starting in fall of 1938, and do not assume that the other nine were numbered sequentially. They definitely preceded 200,000 in BSW's conglomerate numbering of small bores, as produced, mixed together, delivered for proofing. Also, there were AT LEAST 3 prototypes prior to these, built on Meisterschaft action which failed to sell in 1937, but the odds of any of THOSE having survived is virtually nil.
Steve

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SA stock marking

These two are on a 1933 Paatz Sportbuchse...
 

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Just got this from my Grandfather, K98 Trainer 22

Any rifles that you find with s/a or h/j markings please email or post here so I can put them in this section. I'd like to get as many different ones as I can.. thanks !
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Trying to learn as much as I can. Anything you could tell me would be appreciated.
 

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Trying to learn as much as I can. Anything you could tell me would be appreciated.

By now I'm sure you've been able to gather some information on your rifle. Having the Sturmabteilung (SA d NSDAP) stamp places the rifle as having been the property of the Nazi brown shirts. Sometimes the gruppe of the SA is also stamped or engraved. At 216k your rifle was at the earlier end of the kkw production range for BSW/Gustloff. There is a lot of information and expertise here, in this forum and that can be supplemented with information from Jon Speed's book and the new Simpson book that should be ready in 2017.
 
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Trying to learn as much as I can. Anything you could tell me would be appreciated.

Yours rolled out of the factory when KKWs were still being made in Suhl and shortly after the firm's name change due to its incorporation into the Gustloff Foundation. Quality is nicer on these than those made later in Buchenwald with forced labor. The SA often contracted large orders of trainers directly from the manufacturers and this was likely included in one of those large orders. The SA property mark was added after delivery to the SA.

Steve
 
nskk m.u. ERMA dsm34

This was posted @ auction... The rifle had been ruined but the marking and data are still valuable.
We had discussed the M.U. meaning once before but, cant find the thread. Funny its stamped upside down just goes to show they weren't to careful when they were applied.

I feel there is a Small run of these NSKK M.U. ERMA's floating around.

Serial # seems to be 9557 ERMA has been noted in the five digit range bringing production just over 10K units. Lots of these later examples are in Elm also.
 

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There was some speculation on what the letters might indicate, but to my knowledge there has been nothing found to indicate anything further than the letters being for MÜnchen, which is where the main office of the NSKK was located. It was not uncommon for them to use two letters in a city abbreviation. It was also common for an organization such as the NSKK to order trainers direct from factory to their main office, where they were property marked and distributed further.
Steve
 
I found a Gustloff KKW, S/N 244349 that seems to only have an N proof - no eagle or crown visible in the photos. Is this normal? Would the eagle or crown be stamped lower and hidden by the stock?
 
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I found a Gustloff KKW, S/N 244348 that seems to only have an N proof - no eagle or crown visible in the photos. Is this normal? Would the eagle or crown be stamped lower and hidden by the stock?
The proof mark should look like this one, an eagle-N. CrownB/U/G proof marks were no loner used starting in ~1941. If you are in the UK you might have british proof marks if tested there.

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The proof mark should look like this one, an eagle-N. CrownB/U/G proof marks were no loner used starting in ~1941. If you are in the UK you might have british proof marks if tested there.

My markings look similar to yours, I even have the second N, but there is no eagle above it. Has it been removed? :/
 

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