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Thread: dot 1943 with Stamped Welded Front H-band and Green Colored Glue Laminate Stock

  1. #1
    Member rcmauser's Avatar
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    Default dot 1943 with Stamped Welded Front H-band and Green Colored Glue Laminate Stock

    Per request, here are some pics for a late (December?) 1943 dot, 5644v matching numbers with MM bolt that matches itself. It seems the v-block serial probably came from the December '43 time frame.

    I acquired the dot 1943 5644v at the Timonium, Maryland antique gun show in March. Needs some TLC, but it is basically complete. I am somehow attracted to otherwise limping wounded k98's. I passed on the $1,100 "War-time replacement stocked mauser" with the post-war Yugoslavian numbering on it. That gentleman does get credit for directing me to this dot mauser at another vendors' table on the other isle. I guess there are advantages Not to Gasp and Shudder at every fairytale mauser I see...

    The miss-matched bolt does not match the rifle, but the two serials on it (bolt stem and safety) do match each other. The other parts are completely devoid of markings and serials. I think it is one of those armorer kit bolts. I will post pictures of the bolt later. Please excuse the quality of some of the pictures. My camera battery died during the session, so I had to use some of the test pictures taken early in the am...

    This k98 has some interesting aspects for discussion. This V block has a four digit serial on the rear barrel band. Farbs Q block has two. Was use of two or four digits on the bands seen throughout the manufacture of dot k98s? This stock appears to be have a greenish tone to the glue. As St Patrick-day was still in season, it seemed appropriate.....

    The stamped front H-band is a curiosity. How many series used this version. Was its use predominate in one or several letter series? and then now and again throughout the others?


    After close inspection outdoors in the sun, I discovered that the stock has a thin horse-shoe shaped crack at the top of the wrist behind the tang. POOT!! I did not see that under the florescent lights of the Building at the Timonium Fairgrounds. I still would have purchased the k98. However I could have knocked some green off the stock (pun intended). The seller offered to let me take it outside to see which front sight from his offerings better matched the finish. I should have taken him up on that deal (hind sight is 20/20). He did mention that the stock was solid other than the duffel cut.

    As far as I know the negative aspects of this k98 are:
    - Duffel cut under the rear sight separates the stamped barrel channel serial number.
    - Movement of the fore end has allowed the rim of the front hand guard shield on the rear sight to rub into the wood.
    - There is a very thin crack at the top of the wrist behind the tang (I wonder if someone shot this rifle with the stock cut in half?).
    - The butt-plate has been cleaned and the red paint pattern does not match the red paint pattern on the wood at the butt-plate. I suspect the butt-plate has been moved around.
    - The original sight hood was missing. I put on a good substitute.
    - An era appropriate cleaning rod was added.


    Other info:

    Metal has a nice overall dark blued finish

    Stock - Green colored glue. This should make for an interesting discussion.
    Duffel cut under rear sight and stained at some point. However it looks original correct finish to me.
    Marks:
    "dot" stamped on bottom near heal
    Cross-bolt appears to have phosphate finish; probably just patina
    Under butt-plate in pencil Ja (a could be i)

    In barrel channel a penciled "S", "V" and maybe a "21" or fancy "U", stamped 5644 V.

    Bayonet lug dark bluing no marks and cut for use with the H-band.
    Bolt take down disk no marks with nice patina.

    Handguard - White glue with dot stamped on outside top, penciled "5/3" and stamped 5644 v in channel.

    Front barrel band is a stamped and welded H-band with 135 inspection mark.
    Stamped Trigger guard has 214 inspection mark, with deep dark finish.

    11/28/2012 Update: Replaced the dark contrasty pictures...
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    Last edited by rcmauser; 11-28-2012 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Replaced dark contrasty pictures and removed the cats

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    Member rcmauser's Avatar
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    Pics of the stock

    Here is the green glue colored stock. Some white colored glue area appears on the stock near the receiver/barrel area. Could this be from where the dark colored glue is sanded thin?? The matching hand guard is all white glue, definitely from different laminate source/blank.

    Any ideas on this?
    - Is this white glue that changed color overtime?
    - Germans playing around with dye combinations?
    - Sub-contractor/factory error or color-blind dye mixer?
    - A short-lived experiment or process (like the stamped H-bands) that was not worthwhile or just was over-come by events of the day?


    I do not think is was caused by contact with grease or the environment because the pigments are clearly seen and consistent throughout the laminate layers inside the barrel channel, duffel cut and under the butt-plate. Maybe a chemical reaction cause by a treatment of wood laminates on white glue?

    It has been mentioned in other threads that this rifle has been seen on the web before. I found the following Gunboards thread that I believe it was shown in. However, those pictures are deep in the bit-bucket now (...muffled sound of dead-horse moaning after another kick to ribs).

    I wonder if there is way to find out the owner(s) and history of this k98...

    If anyone can find any link to this k98's previous posting(s) with pictures anywhere, I sure would appreciate it.

    Here is the original popular thread started by Hambone that had allot of participation and photos posted back in '08.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...H-band-%28pics
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    Last edited by rcmauser; 11-28-2012 at 04:38 PM. Reason: fixed link to old thread

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    Member rcmauser's Avatar
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    a few more pics detailing the laminate glue layers
    Last edited by rcmauser; 11-28-2012 at 04:42 PM.

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    Senior Member uboat534's Avatar
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    That band is weird! Ive never seen that. Any thoughts guys? Chris
    "A World With Out String Is Chaos" - Rudolph Schmuntz

  5. #5
    "Ach du lieber!" Bigdibbs88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uboat534 View Post
    That band is weird! Ive never seen that. Any thoughts guys? Chris
    they're out there, its legit
    WTB/T e/135 HT rear base

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    Super Moderator mrfarb's Avatar
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    Thats a nice rifle- too bad about the duffle cut, but what can you do? I would have bought it too- it's in really nice shape! It has the later style serial placement on the rear band, while my Q block has the early style placement. This gun was right before the 1944 rifles started, or is a 44 rifle with a 43 receiver. Thanks for posting great photos!

    Here is mine uboat- http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....d-E-135-H-band
    Order the new K98k book at www.thirdpartypress.com
    Don't forget to visit www.latewar.com for info on late war 98k's.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Turbo Archie's Avatar
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    I think these are stamped then milled bands, not your normal milled band..

    Did anyone find a dou yet??


    ...
    *
    **--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    **Wanted - Original un-dicked with late Steyr (bnz45) stock... Long shot but......
    ** --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    **

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    Moderator Pisgah's Avatar
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    Here are some photos of my green glue dot 1943. They used to be up on GunBoards but went away when they switched things over.
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    Last edited by Pisgah; 04-15-2010 at 09:54 PM.

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    Super Moderator Hambone's Avatar
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    Rc, great piece and exceptional pics of the resin color. Thanks for that and pic stickied for reference.
    Regards,
    HB

  10. #10
    Member rcmauser's Avatar
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    Thank you Hambone. I will replace those few contrasty pics when I get time and some better light...


    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    Here are some photos of my green glue dot 1943. They used to be up on GunBoards but went away when they switched things over.

    Thank you for the Post Pisgah! Now there are two. I am glad there is another one out there. I like the rain beading up on the stock. It adds to the atmosphere of the picture. These green stocks and stamped H-barrel bands make those dot k98's and interesting sort of war production study.

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